New IAM standards

[trashbat]

The point is that some motoring organisation could appeal to a large section of the driving public. It is just not the current IAM.

The IAM effectively asks the question, "how can we help the people that bring themselves to us?"

"If people want it, they will find it", in fact. Yeah? How's that working out for the IAM?

It could ask, "how do we entice the people that won't?" For a variety of reasons, this is evidently not going to happen. But it could.

It's interesting. First it was that noone was interested in driving. Now it's that addressing those people is hard, or they can do something else, or they probably won't be interested in this bit of driving, etcetera, so why bother, preaching to the choir is easier.

And hating marketing? Ha. If I successfully plant the idea in someone's hitherto empty head that it might be possible to enjoy driving a bit more with this 'one simple trick', and it turns out this leads to a positive realisation, a behavioural change and ultimately avoiding their prior destiny of crashing into the back of another vehicle because they didn't leave enough space, then what of marketing?

[akirk]

So in summary
- there needs to be an incentive
- it can't be pitched as being about improving your driving as most drivers think they drive okay

quite a challenge!

Alasdair

[zadocbrown]

Interested is not the same as motivated. Hence loads watch Topgear, would take a track day or demo drive if it was free, then carry on regardless....

[TripleS]

So are you suggesting some sort of under 25's IAM scheme that would help young drivers to not only be safer drivers but to also reduce their insurance premiums?

That's been done and doesn't work. Even when you attract under 25s, they tend to be the offspring of teachers, doctors, lawyers, etc. They're usually the sort of kids who handed in their homework on time and passed all their exams. To have any chance of success, you need to be able to target all under 25s, regardless of background.

Under 25 groups are not going to happen, because such a concept depends on the formation of a homogeneous social group. Being under 25 and into cars/driving does not constitute a homogeneous social group. We aren't going to get the max power boys lying down with the shy doctor's daughters or with the grammar school geeks etc etc.

Well if we do, I hope suitable precautions will be taken....

Edit: I've just seen Steve's contribution on the 'lying down' aspect.

[trashbat]

Interested is not the same as motivated. Hence loads watch Topgear, would take a track day or demo drive if it was free, then carry on regardless....

Yes, but interest underpins and may be a catalyst for motivation, just as awareness is to interest.

Improving the average person's driving post-DSA is largely psychological and behavioural, a perhaps unwitting therapy of sorts if you like, much more so than it is a discovery of novel physical skills.

You're unlikely to make worthwhile advances in behavioural change without the subject's buy-in, so you can't pressgang them into it. You also need to engender some explicit motivation to go very far, because in something like SfL, you're asking them to make difficult changes.

That part of the model, the IAM works under, but it pretty much ends there too.

However, noone goes to therapy without knowing that therapy is a thing. Noone rings The Samaritans and is led away from jumping off a bridge without ever having heard of them, or knowing that they might offer valuable help. When the moon hits your eye like a big piece of pie, that's awareness.

But, more than that, noone goes to therapy without thinking that not only does it exist & might technically work - but that, actually, (for example) their own social phobia isn't just normal & healthy, and could potentially be resolved by doing something about it, or because it gets in the way of them ever going on holiday, or whatever, and that therapy might be the answer. That's awareness and motivation and it's borne of an idea that has to be planted.

Target something well and you'll make people aware of it. Target it better and you'll turn awareness into interest. Build a good relationship with the interested and you'll have the engaged, an interest that sticks and can be leveraged. It will be a fraction of the initial group, but you'll have a lot more people through your doors than if they were only open to the already-engaged, and the people you do get will be more valuable as far as your aims go. It might be difficult, and it's probably expensive, but it's not rocket science.

[TripleS]

IAM should organise flat out track days for young drivers.
Then, on those days, include sessions with two way traffic, an imaginery centre line existing.
Thing is, as a society, we're hypocritical about how we want young ones to behave. Sign up to the military, male or female and we want them to fly fast jets, enter conflict zones to fight or be "peacekeepers". This being seen as good.
Similar behaviour in terms of danger, outside of societal sanctioned, bad.
Bring back National Service?
I can remember how I behaved when I was much younger.
Some here appear to have been born old.

Maybe some were; others will have achieved it the hard way: I don't want to achieve it at all.

[TripleS]

Then you have the lobbying, active and influencing organisation that is capable of gaining awareness of road safety without being BRAKE.

Therein lies the problem. Ain't no way the IAM can counteract BRAKE whilst lowest common denominator is the norm. Despite all the stuff about the DVSA test is harder than it's ever been.
Truth is, there should be mandatory retesting, with a fail meaning loss of licence.

What, for the whole driving population? I don't see the justification for mandatory retesting to be applied to all drivers, and in any case it's too big a task.

I can see the relevance of retraining/retesting when those who fall seriously short of decent driving standards are identified. The problem there is identifying those for whom it would be appropriate.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[akirk]

I agree with most of what you say: you can't force people to change. But why are you trying to reach people who are plainly not interested anyway?

Part of me has a real problem with trying to put what amounts to a belief system onto others and it's all starting to sound a bit evangelistic.

not sure it reads that way to me - surely what is being argued is that it is good for people's driving to improve - not a specific system of how to do that...?

okay, I accept that for many they are happy where they are, so the belief that improvement is needed is perhaps an individual perspective - but I think that there is plenty of evidence that driving could be improved, so I don't think it is a bad thing to feel that improvement for all would be good

Alasdair

[Astraist]

I think people question the benefit of improving. This is not a result of neglecting the skill of driving, on the contrary: The larger body of evidence suggests people take more pride of their driving skill than anything else.

Most people believe that their driving is more than adequate, and are doubtful as to the benefits of improving their driving, shifting responsibility to other road users, the road itself, the car....

We do not have the IAM's image problem, because in Israel Advanced Driving Organisations also govern the country's Motorsports and thus has a greater appeal.

[trashbat]

not sure it reads that way to me - surely what is being argued is that it is good for people's driving to improve - not a specific system of how to do that...?

Either that or the higher level aim of improving road safety (e.g. environmental engineering or indeed autonomous vehicles might do that without spending a penny on driver improvement)

That ostensibly is the primary aim of the organisations in question, after all, rather than something narrower like "teach willing candidates to do stuff" or "represent motorists".

[jonquirk]

Picking a positive outcome that would appeal to a large number of people and pushing that seems to me to be worth trying.

One thought: how would you like to get there quicker without going faster?

Most drivers could improve their average speeds by using AD techniques, especially anticipation and acceleration sense and be safer drivers into the bargain.

[WhoseGeneration]

We do not have the IAM's image problem, because in Israel Advanced Driving Organisations also govern the country's Motorsports and thus has a greater appeal.

This I like, perhaps the IAM should amalgamate with the MSA?

[Horse]

We do not have the IAM's image problem, because in Israel Advanced Driving Organisations also govern the country's Motorsports and thus has a greater appeal.

This I like, perhaps the IAM should amalgamate with the MSA?

Intriguingly (well, not really), in most of the world the FIM (Federation international de Motocyclistes) accept one organisation per nation to oversee both motorcycle 'sport' & 'touring', but in the UK we two organisations representing to the FIM: the BMF and ACU.

[WhoseGeneration]

We do not have the IAM's image problem, because in Israel Advanced Driving Organisations also govern the country's Motorsports and thus has a greater appeal.

This I like, perhaps the IAM should amalgamate with the MSA?

Intriguingly (well, not really), in most of the world the FIM (Federation international de Motocyclistes) accept one organisation per nation to oversee both motorcycle 'sport' & 'touring', but in the UK we two organisations representing to the FIM: the BMF and ACU.

If the IAM were to amalgamate with the MSA, then the IAM would be affiliated with the FIA which is heavily into road safety. A cynic might suggest this is to provide positive PR but who cares why.

Now, whilst one can obtain a competition licence from the MSA before being able to drive on public roads, there might be an opportunity for promoting AD to a wider audience by requiring competition licence holders, once reaching the age for public roads to, having obtained a DVSA licence, then achieve an AD standard before continuation of or granting of a competition licence.

Lots of PR potential there for promoting AD to the young and possibly older.

That saying used in competition, "To finish first, first you have to finish", could have an AD equivalent, "To arrive, you have to survive". "Here's how (insert well known top driver) knows how to on public roads".

Or am I just a dreamer?

[Silk]

If the IAM were to amalgamate with the MSA, then the IAM would be affiliated with the FIA which is heavily into road safety. A cynic might suggest this is to provide positive PR but who cares why.

As someone who can't abide any kind of motorsport, I'd find it a complete turn-off. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem if it helped get AD to a wider audience, but it would have to stop well short of posters of drivers in leather onesies.