New IAM standards

[Silk]

If I may say so, I think they've done the right thing.

Does that mean you'll be sending off for your SfL?

[revian]

It's a bit like the church that, in the face of falling numbers, decides to make worship of God optional (after all, most people seem to get along just fine without God). In the end, you just end up with a church full of non-believers until everyone gets fed up and leaves because there's no longer any point in going to church

Clickbait? However I'd love to know where this church is. Perhaps you can give me the Daily Mail reference to it. But It's off topic and I'll desist apart from....attendance in London actually grew by 16% between 2005 and 2012.

However: to put it back to the subject... I try to trust that your understanding of AD is better than this and I'll make progress on that basis...

Actually I'm not uncomfortable with maintaining a 'standard' in any sphere. It's about why it is and what it is.

Has the IAM got an agreed purpose/mission status?

More particularly...Who is the IAM?

But I'm not sure I'll say anything else on this as, apart from an understanding of organisations which is transferable (and particularly about volunteer organisations) I know nothing about the IAM . I'll just watch and learn.

Ian

Edited for odd dyslexia moment!

[vonhosen]

It seems to me, although I could be wrong, that the IAM has allowed itself to be dictated to by a few loud-mouths and self-proclaimed driving "experts".

And about time too!

So the upshot of this is, there are no standards and people can do what they like as long as they don't crash (or should crashing be allowed as well now?)

Of course it isn't, it's just not misappropriating or restricting the term 'standard' to dictate an unnecessarily restrictive style/input choice. The standard is the repeated quality of the output achieved, not unnecessarily restricting that to one input method when it can be achieved just as well (or maybe even with better results for some) using an alternative method. It can result in an increase in standards achieved as opposed to an abolition of them.

[akirk]

how on earth do they quanticise 'broken' for steering... might have well as said dont bother looking at their steering.

Not smooth or accurate I'd have thought?

It's been a criticism of insistence on pull/push that it doesn't matter what method is used if the 'output' is consistently good.

It's a bit like the church that, in the face of falling numbers, decides to make worship of God optional (after all, most people seem to get along just fine without God). In the end, you just end up with a church full of non-believers until everyone gets fed up and leaves because there's no longer any point in going to church.

It seems to me, although I could be wrong, that the IAM has allowed itself to be dictated to by a few loud-mouths and self-proclaimed driving "experts".

A more accurate anaology would be:

the church that woke up and realised that they were defining God by their churchmanship - rather than realising that God is absolute and defined outside man's perspective - and then realising that there may be validity in other forms of churchmanship as well... (High Anglican / Catholic / Evangelical / Charismatic / etc. etc.)

Alasdair

[hir]

It seems to me, although I could be wrong, that the IAM has allowed itself to be dictated to by a few loud-mouths and self-proclaimed driving "experts".

And about time too!

So the upshot of this is, there are no standards and people can do what they like as long as they don't crash (or should crashing be allowed as well now?)

In future the output will be the standard. Is the steering output safe, smooth and with the car under complete control at all times?

Previously, the standard has been primarily input based (pull-push), with outputs being of secondary concern only (did the pull push steering result in an output that was safe, smooth and with the car under complete at all times?).

It's what us "loud-mouths" and self-proclaimed driving "experts" have been banging on about for years.

[waremark]

In future the output will be the standard. Is the steering output safe, smooth and with the car under complete control at all times?

You hope. Wait and see!

By the way, my current Associates steering wasn't broke so I didn't try to fix it.

[hir]

In future the output will be the standard. Is the steering output safe, smooth and with the car under complete control at all times?

You hope. Wait and see!

You know me, Mark. I'm ever the optimist.

Look what's happened this week for example. I've waited years for someone to call me a "loud-mouth", and I've waited ages for someone to label me a self-proclaimed driving "expert". And, well, what do you know? This week I get called both, in one post!!! See, one must never give up hope.

[jcochrane]

You should have said hir I would have called you that any time you wanted. I believe silk had a number of us in mind though.

Mark, you have to admit that there are grounds to be optimistic. Much that we have brought up in the past appears not to have fallen on deaf ears.

[hir]

You should have said hir I would have called you that any time you wanted. I believe silk had a number of us in mind though.

No, I'm afraid it was only me he was thinking about. If he'd had you in mind he wouldn't have put the word expert in quotation marks!!!

Mark, you have to admit that there are grounds to be optimistic. Much that we have brought up in the past appears not to have fallen on deaf ears.

+1

[jcochrane]

You should have said hir I would have called you that any time you wanted. I believe silk had a number of us in mind though.

No, I'm afraid it was only me he was thinking about. If he'd had you in mind he wouldn't have put the word expert in quotation marks!!!

That's true he probably recognised I was an expert rather than a self proclaimed expert.

[jcochrane]

<legal profession>An expert being defined as a has-been who is a drip under pressure. </legal profession>
In America such is defined as somebody from out of town...

Is it not correct to say you were an "expert" witness in a former life.

[hir]

Yes indeed...

However, I wasn't a self-appointed expert, but by dint of approval of fellow experts. Or in other words, I was such an expert that other experts would look at me and say "My god he's such an expert".

Not very convincing, is it?

I would now suggest after twenty years of doing this that I am an expert...

Yes, but, I don't just have my peer group's opinion that I qualify as a "self-proclaimed-loud-mouthed-driving-"expert"". Oh, no! I have an opinion given by a Queen's Counsel, no less, confirming my elevated status.

Here is the opinion in full:

It seems to me, although I could be wrong, that the IAM has allowed itself to be dictated to by a few loud-mouths and self-proclaimed driving "experts".

But, note the crafty caveat, the get out of jail free clause where he says... "although I could be wrong". Why oh why can't you get a barrister to commit to giving an opinion that you can categorically rely on. I'm now left thinking that my status may not be all that I'm making it out to be!

[TripleS]

It seems to me, although I could be wrong, that the IAM has allowed itself to be dictated to by a few loud-mouths and self-proclaimed driving "experts".

And about time too!

So the upshot of this is, there are no standards and people can do what they like as long as they don't crash (or should crashing be allowed as well now?)

It depends how you do it, I suppose. Maybe some crashes are better than others.

[TripleS]

If I may say so, I think they've done the right thing.

Does that mean you'll be sending off for your SfL?

No. They don't deserve to suffer another dose of me. I couldn't be that unkind.

[martine]

A more accurate anaology would be:

the church that woke up and realised that they were defining God by their churchmanship - rather than realising that God is absolute and defined outside man's perspective - and then realising that there may be validity in other forms of churchmanship as well... (High Anglican / Catholic / Evangelical / Charismatic / etc. etc.)

Love it. Of course some people consider they are a driving god...