ADUK Archive

Silk wrote:

WhoseGeneration wrote:If the IAM were to amalgamate with the MSA, then the IAM would be affiliated with the FIA which is heavily into road safety. A cynic might suggest this is to provide positive PR but who cares why.

As someone who can't abide any kind of motorsport, I'd find it a complete turn-off. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem if it helped get AD to a wider audience, but it would have to stop well short of posters of drivers in leather onesies.

Painfully obvious you have no interest in motorsport, "drivers in leather onesies".
Unless you're using the strict definition of a motorcyclist but then I didn't reference the ACU.
I'd not use images of drivers in Nomex suits in any advertising, the name and face would be the point.

Silk wrote:Although I'm broadly in agreement with the driver being more important than the car, I feel there's an element of diminishing returns once you get to a certain level of competence. In the end, road driving isn't actually that difficult - attitude and a healthy sense of survival are much more important than absolute skill, IMO.

Serious question, prompted by post above in the context of this thread.

Are you aware of how much more difficult it is to ride a motorcycle, especially to a high standard?

Horse wrote:

Silk wrote:Although I'm broadly in agreement with the driver being more important than the car, I feel there's an element of diminishing returns once you get to a certain level of competence. In the end, road driving isn't actually that difficult - attitude and a healthy sense of survival are much more important than absolute skill, IMO.

Serious question, prompted by post above in the context of this thread.

Are you aware of how much more difficult it is to ride a motorcycle, especially to a high standard?

Don't know, don't care. I've never ridden a motorcycle and have no intention of doing so, so it's completely irrelevant. Just because I don't have any interest myself, doesn't mean I have a problem with those who do, so there's no point trying to bait me into having a go at motorcyclists. Apart from that, what's your point?

Goodness that all took some catching up on

nice rounded discussion for once

If I may add what got me involved...

I took and passed the test aged 17 (in 1992) as many do, aged just over 18 my mother (step forward puffin for those who don't know...) decreed that if I were to continue driving their cars I should train for and take the IAM test. Seeing as I loved driving so much and had no car of my own, I obliged. If I'm truthful I adopted two forms of driving - one that which satisified the IAM group and got me through the test and one that ahem was a little more carefree... (look away mother ). None the less I managed to avoid any further accidents (first one was before I passed the L test ) until much later in my driving career.

Advance further in time and I started to realise that while I at the time felt the IAM was a fairly fruitless exercise, it was in fact a rather slow burn skill, the underpinning of which was ever present in my drive and while I thought I had the two 'modes' it was in fact simply the one...

Later as an observer with my current group I recognized myself in an associate I had, he had been sent by his parents and couldn't see the point in doing the IAM training but his parents had said the same to him as mine had to me, he then proceeded to show me how good he was... some words later, and alas we have never seen him again...

The point I think I am trying to make is that it one hundred percent has to be that the associate has to be interested in improving their driving and have the will to want to do it. Furthermore youngsters nowadays want everything NOW and can't be bothered to wait for it or save up for it, how do you get across to such people that this stuff can take years to learn... and you never stop doing so?

As membership secretary of my current group, we have the questions... unfortunately we have few answers

WhoseGeneration wrote:

Silk wrote:

WhoseGeneration wrote:If the IAM were to amalgamate with the MSA, then the IAM would be affiliated with the FIA which is heavily into road safety. A cynic might suggest this is to provide positive PR but who cares why.

As someone who can't abide any kind of motorsport, I'd find it a complete turn-off. I wouldn't necessarily have a problem if it helped get AD to a wider audience, but it would have to stop well short of posters of drivers in leather onesies.

Painfully obvious you have no interest in motorsport, "drivers in leather onesies".
Unless you're using the strict definition of a motorcyclist but then I didn't reference the ACU.
I'd not use images of drivers in Nomex suits in any advertising, the name and face would be the point.

From what I've seen of it, most motorsportists appear to wear some kind of leather all-in-one suit (onesie). A big glossy IAM poster depicting a couple of these people, back to back, shot from below, helmet in hand, would be a scene from motoring hell, IMO.

P.S. I wish people wouldn't use abbreviations. I had to look up MSA and FIA (I'm still not sure I got the right ones, going by the reply above) and I still don't know what the ACU is.

Silk, here are links;

https://www.msauk.org/

http://www.acu.org.uk/

http://www.fia.com/

Eta, in case you didn't want to explore, there's this; http://www.fia.com/road-safety

Silk wrote:...stuff... IMO.

P.S. I wish people wouldn't use abbreviations. ...stuff...

Alasdair

Silk wrote:

Horse wrote:

Silk wrote:Although I'm broadly in agreement with the driver being more important than the car, I feel there's an element of diminishing returns once you get to a certain level of competence. In the end, road driving isn't actually that difficult - attitude and a healthy sense of survival are much more important than absolute skill, IMO.

Serious question, prompted by post above in the context of this thread.

Are you aware of how much more difficult it is to ride a motorcycle, especially to a high standard?

Don't know, don't care. I've never ridden a motorcycle and have no intention of doing so, so it's completely irrelevant. Just because I don't have any interest myself, doesn't mean I have a problem with those who do, so there's no point trying to bait me into having a go at motorcyclists. Apart from that, what's your point?

Point? That if you understood that, you might appreciate why such an image (bikey ads) may be used.

No intention of baiting, you obviously have the wrong impression of me. As i said, it was a serious question and a simple 'no' would have sufficed.

Silk, a further similarity between the IAM and motorsports is that both couldn't function without very many, not paid, volunteers.

WhoseGeneration wrote:....am I just a dreamer?

Maybe, but I'm not sure that's necessarily a bad thing: I do a bit of that myself.

Amongst the younger driving community I can imagine some kind of competition driving tie-up might sharpen up their interest in driving, but I doubt if it would interest the wider driving public. To my mind there is also the risk that some of the driving that's applicable to the track might get carried over to public roads, in which case it might do more harm than good.

I do not think so.

Like I said, down here most Advanced Driving coaches are professional competitors in all sorts of motorsports, so they see lots of similarities rather than differences.

While motorsport is about competition which is clearly not for the public road, it is also about strict adhernce to rules, about mental and physical preparation - quite positive lessons for the road.

The driving style in tarmac-based motorsport is quite applicable on the road, in the sense that it is smooth and very accurate. Generally speaking, if a driving style works well on the track, it should be even more so applicable on the road.

Yes, on the track you drive closer to the limit (and you will be amazed how little of the whole race is a driver actually ON the limit), but this is purely the result of the conditions. On the road it becomes a manner of using the grip efficiently, so you use as little of it as strictly needed, keeping more in reserve.

Horse wrote:As i said, it was a serious question and a simple 'no' would have sufficed.

You said, "Are you aware of how much more difficult it is to ride a motorcycle, especially to a high standard?"

I can only answer "no" if you're correct when you say it's more difficult. I have no idea if it's more difficult, so the answer has to be "I don't know". I'm sure there are those who ride/drive both who may find driving a car to be more difficult, again I don't know as I only drive cars.

So, I'll ask again, what's your point?

WhoseGeneration wrote:Silk, a further similarity between the IAM and motorsports is that both couldn't function without very many, not paid, volunteers.

Same for the Women's Institute, but I doubt I'll be going to them for driving tips.

You're welcome to take my word for it, and answer accordingly.

Or not and don't.

Horse wrote:You're welcome to take my word for it, and answer accordingly.

Or not and don't.

Ok.