20 mph Zones

[Gareth]

Only when you have assertained that you can cruise at 30mph with no likelyhood of needing to accelerate would 3rd be selected.

That's how I do it with our diesel Skoda cars.

[Pontoneer]

Certainly with my automatic cars ( MB 190E/300SL-24 ) , they'd be a gear lower at a steady 20 on a level road , than at a steady 30 ; third rather than fourth .

[trashbat]

You can argue as much as you like that you can travel safely at higher speeds than the normal Joe or Jane but the world is made up of Joes and Janes and not Alastairs.

Here's an idea. Why don't you approach your local Advanced Driving organisation and see if you can get a demonstration drive, or even sign up for a course yourself? Failing that, you could always attend one of the ADUK driving days. I promise no one will attempt to pelt you with rotten fruit.

Seconded. I'd be very happy to provide a demonstration drive if Rod finds himself in Hampshire. Equally I'm sure there are ADUK members in or near his locality.

[akirk]

He is based in Cheshire, so perhaps someone near there...
Rod, if you are ever in the Cotswolds, I would be happy to show you why we don't need 20mph limits to drive safely for us as drivers and all other road and locality users...

Alasdair

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

Only when you have assertained that you can cruise at 30mph with no likelyhood of needing to accelerate would 3rd be selected.

That's how I do it with our diesel Skoda cars.

Well, while I'm all for a flexible gear, I think you're maybe over-egging the "advanced" stuff. As long as a turbo-diesel has its turbo spinning, I can't see a need for excessive revs. The turbo in my 308 is starting to act at 1700 rpm, and 3rd is well above that at 30. 2nd would just be making noise (and burning fuel) for the sake of it.

[kfae8959]

He is based in Cheshire, so perhaps someone near there...

I'll do it!

David

[akirk]

Alasdair, I doubt if you'd be in 1st or 2nd unless you artificially restricted yourself to that. 3rd should work perfectly well for a steady 20. In your automatic it might even use 4th from time to time.

Only when you have assertained that you can cruise at 30mph with no likelyhood of needing to accelerate would 3rd be selected.

That's how I do it with our diesel Skoda cars.

Well, while I'm all for a flexible gear, I think you're maybe over-egging the "advanced" stuff. As long as a turbo-diesel has its turbo spinning, I can't see a need for excessive revs. The turbo in my 308 is starting to act at 1700 rpm, and 3rd is well above that at 30. 2nd would just be making noise (and burning fuel) for the sake of it.

for me gears depend on car / engine / speed choice, and it is an interesting debate because it highlights how different various cars are...

the skoda octavia scout I have (150ps engine / 6-speed gear box) which is brand new last month - has a totally different engine and range from the 160+ps diesel Ford Kuga it replaced and different rev / gear combinations for each speed...

just tried the Skoda at 20mph and it sits comfortably in 2nd gear at c. 1800 revs - put it into 3rd gear and it falls to c. 1200 revs and struggles - so in a 20mph I wouldn't take it out of 2nd - while I would prefer 3rd at 30mph it is not uncomfortable in 2nd at around 2200 revs...

will try the petrol 5 speed z3 later - and as the MG is dead and the LR struggles to get to 20mph that will have to do for testing

Alasdair

[akirk]

Re "journeys transferred have an effective mpg of 0"

Wrong: they have an effective mpg of infinity.

gallon of beer or gallon of water?

Alasdair

[Gareth]

The turbo in my 308 is starting to act at 1700 rpm, and 3rd is well above that at 30. 2nd would just be making noise (and burning fuel) for the sake of it.

In our Octavia, which has the rev-counter scale in units of 125(!), 2nd at 30 is ~2625-2750 while 3rd is ~1625-1750.

Returning from shopping, I turned off a 30 mph road into another 30 mph road, lazily keeping in 2nd and waiting for the road (and engine) speed to rise before continuing to accelerate. It was downhill, not especially steep, so on reaching 30 mph I stayed in 2nd to hold it back since if I'd changed to 3rd I'd have needed to use the brakes.

At the bottom, after passing over a couple of speed humps, I accelerated to 30 mph, changed to 3rd, and held it for the rise. As I neared a series of tight bends I let the speed fall and, at about 25 mph, changed to 2nd to give sufficient power to comfortably accelerate through each bend, accelerate & lift times four, before returning to 3rd at 30 mph.

[chrisl]

...The whole 20's Plenty movement is about redefining the reference point...

Hi Rod,

May I ask you to clarify what you mean by "redefining the reference point"?

Does this mean that you seek a situation where there is a rebuttable presumption that residential roads have a 20mph limit, in contrast with the current situation where the presumption is for 30mph?

In other words, at the moment I understand that the authorities must justify departures from a 30mph limit, and you would prefer a situation where departures from a 20mph limit needed to be justified?

Thank you.

[MGF]

I thought Rod had made it clear that he prefers a default speed limit of 20 mph instead of the current 30mph. He believes the interests of other road users such as pedestrians and cyclists and communities as a whole would be better served by the same. There is some force to that argument, I think.

Currently i'm scoring Rod 1 ADUK O,

[revian]

Currently i'm scoring Rod 1 ADUK O,

Doesn't that illustrate the problem the '0' side feel exists?

[chrisl]

I thought Rod had made it clear that he prefers a default speed limit of 20 mph instead of the current 30mph. He believes the interests of other road users such as pedestrians and cyclists and communities as a whole would be better served by the same. There is some force to that argument, I think.

Just wanted to clarify the central issue from the peripheral discussions, and understand the extent to which Rod's aims are nuanced. Having read his earlier post again I can see he does indeed specify "residential roads".

I am inclined to agree with your assessment of his objectives.

[waremark]

Is a major reason that as a group we are strongly opposed to blanket 20's the fact that we generally show more respect for speed limits than the majority of drivers.?

[akirk]

I thought Rod had made it clear that he prefers a default speed limit of 20 mph instead of the current 30mph. He believes the interests of other road users such as pedestrians and cyclists and communities as a whole would be better served by the same. There is some force to that argument, I think.

Currently i'm scoring Rod 1 ADUK O,

On what basis do you score it? His arguments are so full of holes he hasn't come back to rebutt the majority of the points being made...

Is a major reason that as a group we are strongly opposed to blanket 20's the fact that we generally show more respect for speed limits than the majority of drivers.?

I suspect it is because we take a more intelligent view / that we do probably already drive appropriately within a 30mph using it according to conditions / that we see the flaws & political expediency in his arguments...

Alasdair