waremark wrote:akirk wrote:you are yet to put forward one example of how a speed limit stops an accident where driver training would not / where a 20mph limit v. a 30mph limit both driven correctly is any safer / where a 20mph limit is dealing with the root cause not just the symptoms...
if you can start to put forward a case for any of those, or all, then it would be interesting to listen...
Alasdair
Do you really not believe that the reduction of speed limits and the change of culture towards speeds over the limit in the wider population over the last 25 years has played a part in casualty reduction? There are irresponsible drivers, there are normally responsible drivers being careless or in an irresponsible mood, there are poorly trained drivers. Using limits, enforcement and culture to slow such people down must have played a part.
And most of us fall into some of those categories some of the time. The IAM have consistently failed to prove that their training reduces accidents. What evidence do you have that a different training regime could offer a universal panacea?
What I want to see is a bit of balance - a little less lowering of limits in inappropriate places, a little bit more public information safety related advertising, a bit more promotion of safe driving practices other than slower speeds, and a suitable road safety course as part of the national curriculum for early teenagers.
possibly in some places - but not that I have seen, so maybe anecdotal - hence the reason for an interest if there is any concrete evidence...
It is a rarity around here to see anyone taking note of speed limits.
A speed limit doesn't of itself change how a driver drives - that is the driver's choice
Push the limits down too far and you lose respect for the limits
Similarly, place inappropriate limits and there is a loss of respect (if you kept NSL and had the rare occasional 40 or 50 where there is a dangerous section of road, then it would be respected - the continual reduction without reason means that people tend to ignore the speed limit and not respect it - thus the places where it is needed lose the reduction's value).
but key to this debate is - how does a 20mph limit v. a 30mph limit, on its own change things?
There is little evidence that it persuades the majority of drivers to drive slower
Those drivers who are educated / drive well / etc. will drive appropriately in either, meaning that they might do less than 20 in a 30 anyway... those who are not probably ignore the 20 anyway...
There is no evidence presented so far as to how a 20 v a 30 actually demonstrably changes speed / saves lives / etc.
now - when you look at a local village with an intelligent system of chicanes and road 'furniture' it works far better than playing with the speed limits - with no other traffic, you can drive at 30mph if safe, but mix in more traffic and you have to slow down - some intelligent thinking went into its design - there is no intelligence in the lets all go 20 theory
Alasdair