Dampers, bushes and top mounts

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving.

Postby IcedKiwi » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:59 am


That doesn't sounds very nice - I'll let it slide. I assume, like me, you like to be correct about things like these and was why I piped in. My engine knowledge is fairly specific and theoretical, so i'd be buggered if something actually went wrong and had to try and fix it. But I do need to understand what everyone else is talking about so try to keep on top of my acronyms etc. Project names are the worst, my latest (public domain) one is ECOCHAMPS - European COmpetitiveness in Commercial Hybrid and AutoMotive PowertrainS

But back on topic, I'm all for OEM, experienced engineers and millions of R&D budget - But how can you know that it's not been a cost down exercise? Every pound counts when you're making millions of vehicles, and so they don't always do what's best in terms of performance. Maybe suspension's a different kettle of fish, but if your Porsche gen 1 water cooled engine failed, you wouldn't replace it with an OEM one but a Hartech modified one who have fixed the short comings.

Additionally, suspension designers have a specific goal they're trying to achieve which may be different to other manufacturers - lots of different manufacturers using the same platform but handle differently.
Take the GT86/BRZ for example where I believe the press said the Toyota handled better (I assume they were aiming for different things for different customers, rather than poor engineering). Could you change the spring rates/roll stiffness of the BRZ using aftermarket parts (are swap them for GT86 parts) to match the GT86 and gain a "better handling car" or are there more things at play which meant that you would not only not match the GT86 but ruin the handling completely for not going OEM?
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Postby Garrison » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:02 am


Thanks Dave. 0300 is early, are you working odd hours again?

So should I consider the misting of just one damper that it is leaking or just monitoring it for wayward handling?

I thought about a 996 GT2 but discounted it based on its lack of PSM. I want the extra safety net of PSM because I use the 996T as my winter daily and therefore it should not write off itself on the road by a "rumoured" unpredictable diff. Not considered a 993 GT2 either.

996T seems to fit as I want the car to not depreciate, I can add a hundred thousand miles to, to be quiet and comfy for long distance drive to see clients, and to have a sat nav and a telephone. I tried to find a nice C4 but got nowhere in the last year and a half. I nearly bought a 993 Targa though.
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Postby Garrison » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:36 am


StressedDave wrote:I'm slightly surprised that Garrison's car actually has monotube dampers!

Interesting. I thought OE dampers are Bilstein B4. Is B4 monotube?
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Postby Garrison » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:45 am


StressedDave wrote:Cough... M5 V8, a Bluetooth earpiece and a Garmin on the windscreen. I've yet to find a suitably good Sat Nag.

I don't like having to attach and detach the sat nav or bluetooth earpiece, especially the wiring, and I don't like to leave it on permanently as I live in London.

Good call on the M5 V8 but I couldn't find a nice one, I travel 2-up 99% of the time so no need a big saloon, and I have missed the boat price-wise now.
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:15 am


I'll stick with my hairdresser Porsche. It doesn't overstretch my limited capabilities. As someone posted elsewhere recently, there's a sweet spot in power/weight where you have enough power to have fun, without having to worry about the excess trying to kill you. Lots of power is only any good in a straight line (unless you're into needlessly turning rubber into smoke, or "drifting" as it's called) and then if you have to spend most of your attention and adrenaline getting sweaty palms trying to keep it straight, the attraction palls somewhat - especially if there are hard immovable objects, or other vehicles, in the vicinity. Well, for me, anyway. YMMV.
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Postby Garrison » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:48 am


StressedDave wrote:I'm not sure Canary Wharf is a particularly crime-prone location, unless there are now gangs of disgruntled bankers roaming the streets looking for victims. Taking mine off its vent mounting takes 5 seconds and hiding the wiring on the floor is far easier than mucking around putting it in the glove box.

You bet - no comment on disgruntled bankers but I have left banking (or financial services altogether). Now working in tech.

Not just in Canary Wharf where I have had my windows smashed 3 times in the past, all in Tower Hamlets and they got nothing in the car. I know not to leave anything inside.

I now often park around Liverpool Street / Petticoat Lane market car park / Spitalfields market car park in the week days which is new to me. Also I drive down to the Reading office and it is a new area for me too. Plus the glove box is pretty small in the 996 to store the Garmin, suction mount and the charge on top of my office stationary (laptop and phone charges, tissues, notepads, pens, receipts for expenses, tyre pressure gauge, OBDII bluetooth reader, etc.)
Last edited by Garrison on Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:39 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Postby Garrison » Thu Aug 20, 2015 11:51 am


Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Image
and you can even see the arrows cast into the arm and the chassis member.

Where are the arrows on the arm and chassis member? I cannot see it in the picture.
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Postby TripleS » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:44 pm


Garrison wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Image
and you can even see the arrows cast into the arm and the chassis member.

Where are the arrows on the arm and chassis member? I cannot see it in the picture.


No, I can't see them either. What I can see are two new suspension links (or one wishbone) fitted to an old car.

Thanks for the picture, Mr C-W, but I have to say that looking at the underside of old cars tends to depress me. :( There's maybe something to be said for having a new car at reasonable intervals after all. :wink:
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Postby Gareth » Thu Aug 20, 2015 12:48 pm


If you look at the bottom of the rear-most point of attachment, there is something that looks like a bump on the shiny piece, and something that looks like a couple of bumps at the corresponding part of the not-so-shiny chassis. Unless I'm making stuff up!
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:28 pm


OK, here you go:

Image

Now stop complaining about the underside of my car, and be grateful for pics at all! :mrgreen:
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Aug 20, 2015 2:54 pm


Yeah, I know, and I promise you'll never have to drive mine :mrgreen:

You could ask, conversely, why you like MX-5's so much, since much of the same applies :twisted:

PS "even the most" ... what?
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Postby Garrison » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:00 pm


Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Image

I see, thanks Nick. Can you send me a couple of links to the non-OEM coffin arms and tuning forks please? I'm sourcing parts.

So far I have
- http://teile.com/en/porsche-parts-shop/model-911-996/1
- http://www.rosepassion.com/en/cat/porsche-996-turbo-2002-996-turbo-coupe-manual-gearbox-6-speed/M569
but the coffin arm is still dealer price at £235 each :(
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Postby Mr Cholmondeley-Warner » Thu Aug 20, 2015 3:16 pm


Well, I like my car. I like Garrison's too, but I don't need his power to have fun. Likewise, I'm conscious of the capability of the car to mask my inadequacies which is why I'm lucky to get to drive other more difficult things too. The main point was about amount of power, rather than chassis capability. It's possible that there's a 600bhp car out there that is as easy to drive as a Boxster, but ultimately, the 600bhp is going to bite you much worse than 250. That doesn't mean 600 can't be fun - for 5 minutes, or 5 hours.
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Postby jont » Thu Aug 20, 2015 4:35 pm


StressedDave wrote:
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:Well, I like my car. I like Garrison's too, but I don't need his power to have fun. Likewise, I'm conscious of the capability of the car to mask my inadequacies which is why I'm lucky to get to drive other more difficult things too. The main point was about amount of power, rather than chassis capability. It's possible that there's a 600bhp car out there that is as easy to drive as a Boxster, but ultimately, the 600bhp is going to bite you much worse than 250. That doesn't mean 600 can't be fun - for 5 minutes, or 5 hours.

Other than the need for restraint, to stop you parking yourself in the scenery, I've found that the very high powered cars I've driven (I think I've only gone over the 600 bhp figure once) have been as docile as a Boxster.

Now put a Boxster on 15" rims and van tyres, then it'd be proper fun. Cue wistful remembrance of a Suzuki Supercarry van...

This one is a mere 550bhp, but I imagine it's probably not particularly docile although it does claim to have traction control.
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Postby revian » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:06 pm


jont wrote:This one[/url] is a mere 550bhp, but I imagine it's probably not particularly docile although it does claim to have traction control.


It's only done 500 miles in 6 years! Good grief - the cost per mile is astronomical surely! Why spend that much on a car (Which isn't quite my budget :D ) and not use it???

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