Dampers, bushes and top mounts

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving.

Postby akirk » Thu Aug 20, 2015 5:09 pm


also depends on mood etc. - there are times when a car which flatters is a godsend :)

Alasdair
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Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:12 pm


StressedDave wrote:
akirk wrote:also depends on mood etc. - there are times when a car which flatters is a godsend :)

Alasdair

Yay... two disagreements in one day.

I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to the idea that you reduce the quality of your drive depending on mood. I had friends in the Police who worked on the basis that until the lights went blue there was no real incentive to drive 'properly'. Unsurprisingly, they were also the friends who had a disproportionate level of POLCOLS.

The pace may change depending on the circumstances - there's no point trying to make progress through London at 4:30 on a Friday evening, for example. But the level of concentration and quality should be unswerving.

After all, you'd be somewhat dismissive of a RoSPA member who drove like crap for 2 years, 364 days and 23 hours but then gave a sterling drive during a retest.


SD gives the truth, it isn't what you drive but how you drive.
Crappy car in dynamic terms?, the true ADer will be able to get the best out of it. Point of "the system".
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
Keeps one safe. One hopes.
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Postby akirk » Thu Aug 20, 2015 9:50 pm


StressedDave wrote:
akirk wrote:also depends on mood etc. - there are times when a car which flatters is a godsend :)

Alasdair

Yay... two disagreements in one day.

I'm sorry but I don't subscribe to the idea that you reduce the quality of your drive depending on mood. I had friends in the Police who worked on the basis that until the lights went blue there was no real incentive to drive 'properly'. Unsurprisingly, they were also the friends who had a disproportionate level of POLCOLS.

The pace may change depending on the circumstances - there's no point trying to make progress through London at 4:30 on a Friday evening, for example. But the level of concentration and quality should be unswerving.

After all, you'd be somewhat dismissive of a RoSPA member who drove like crap for 2 years, 364 days and 23 hours but then gave a sterling drive during a retest.


True :) but I would be very surprised if there was anyone on here able to give 100% of their ability 100% of the time...

you shouldn't drive in that way, but I suspect that we all have times when for various reasons we are not at the top of our game and still have to drive

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Postby WhoseGeneration » Thu Aug 20, 2015 10:22 pm


akirk wrote:
True :) but I would be very surprised if there was anyone on here able to give 100% of their ability 100% of the time...

you shouldn't drive in that way, but I suspect that we all have times when for various reasons we are not at the top of our game and still have to drive

Alasdair


The modern world, recent reports of studies that say night shift working lowers lifespan and that too many hours working leads to an increased risk of a stroke.
What's to be done to ensure all are at the top of their game in all facets of life?
We're pushing beyond our natural limits in many cases.
Anyhow, my minor rant aside, driving, just forget all else and make that your focus.
Always a commentary, spoken or not.
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Postby Gareth » Fri Aug 21, 2015 7:34 am


StressedDave wrote:OK, quick straw poll here... When you drive how many of you are actually thinking about the System and how you should apply it, and how many of you are trying to optimise the road you're driving on (for whatever sort of optimisation you've chosen)? Be honest now...

Mostly, when I'm driving, my mind is pretty much blank. There are two kinds of blank, though. The better one is when I'm totally absorbed in what I'm doing, as it is sometimes for other aspects of my life. When my mind isn't blank it is likely to be because I'm repeating one mantra or other to myself, for example, don't fuck up.
there is only the road, nothing but the road ...
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Postby akirk » Fri Aug 21, 2015 8:38 am


StressedDave wrote:
akirk wrote:True :) but I would be very surprised if there was anyone on here able to give 100% of their ability 100% of the time...

you shouldn't drive in that way, but I suspect that we all have times when for various reasons we are not at the top of our game and still have to drive.

That's the point - if you can't give 100% of your ability 100% of the time then there's something seriously wrong with how you're driving.


I think it is a truly exceptional driver who can give 100% of ability 100% of the time :) do you really mean that you have no distractions:
- dog or children making a noise behind you
- the radio or music on
- thinking about a conversation earlier that day, or one you are about to have
- worrying about money / health / friends / family
- tiredness
- etc. etc.

sorry, yes there are lots of drivers who when 'going out for a drive' like an ADUK event can give 100% of ability for 100% of that drive, but I would place money on the majority of them not giving 100% on the way home, or the next day, or dropping the children off at school, or any of many other times...

if that means there is something seriously wrong, then I put my hand up to it - I probably drive at a higher % of ability for a higher % of time than most folks as I don't have children / others to distract, but even so I know that I don't give 100% / 100%

I would say that my ability is higher than the majority of drivers on the road, but am also very aware of how far there is still to go, part of that might be that I don't even fully understand my own ability yet... how could I therefore give 100%? When I did the training with AM part of what he did was show me what I could do - not just teach me new stuff... so when maxing out my current skill level, I might not be maxing out my ability...

and for me a part of AD is about contingency - upping the level at which I drive, so that when I am not at 100% I am still driving at a higher level than I would have been otherwise - it is not just about giving more pace / handling corners smoother and faster - though that is all a part of it - but about having a wider safety net for the times when I am tired and still have to drive etc.

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Postby revian » Fri Aug 21, 2015 9:39 am


akirk wrote:True :) but I would be very surprised if there was anyone on here able to give 100% of their ability 100% of the time.

I'm genuinely surprised that anyone thinks they can. Dr Spock might be the exception though I recall his discovery of emotions spoiled it a tad for him.

Why would one think that if the 'Dampers, bushes and top mounts' could effect a cars handling that the much more complex construction of a human being could not be effected by 'parts failures' . You might well set the front of your mind on driving well but there's a hidden part which might be hindering that seeming decision. Some have been mentioned.

Well I'll admit I dont drive (I'd say 'can't drive) at 100% for 100%. I'd moreover suggest that this is impossible... However close to it or good we might be. Perhaps the exception is lurking near the fens? :wink:

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Postby akirk » Fri Aug 21, 2015 11:24 am


okay - from my degree in amongst other things sport psychology & teaching etc. you are talking about what we referred to as grooving the skills...

however in that learning, 100% referred to grooving the skills / using that, but then adding the conscious on top...

on your basis, yes makes sense - but on that basis, I am sure we would agree that the conscious is difficult to focus fully on driving

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Postby zadocbrown » Fri Aug 21, 2015 3:51 pm


StressedDave wrote:OK, quick straw poll here... When you drive how many of you are actually thinking about the System and how you should apply it, and how many of you are trying to optimise the road you're driving on (for whatever sort of optimisation you've chosen)?



What's the difference? Surely we should apply the system so as to optimize the road? :wink:
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Postby TripleS » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:08 pm


OK, answers to quick straw poll:

I don’t believe that anybody can give 100% of everything 100% of the time., any more than I accept the proposition that driving requires 100% concentration at all times. IMHO it isn’t necessary, which is fortunate, because it’s not achievable. What we do need is sufficient concentration to get the job done safely and to a good standard.

As for ‘The System’, and ‘optimising the road’, I don’t focus on those. I look at what’s going on around me and deal with it without much conscious thought about the precise details of what I need to do.

Maybe I have misunderstood what SD is getting at.
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Postby revian » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:28 pm


zadocbrown wrote:? .....so as to optimize the road? :wink:


Wouldn't that involve (eg) digging them up to straighten the bends? :roll

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Postby zadocbrown » Fri Aug 21, 2015 4:48 pm


revian wrote:
zadocbrown wrote:? .....so as to optimize the road? :wink:


Wouldn't that involve (eg) digging them up to straighten the bends? :roll

Ian


Well that would give more time at destination to be a smart-alec online....
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Postby revian » Fri Aug 21, 2015 5:04 pm


zadocbrown wrote:
revian wrote:
zadocbrown wrote:? .....so as to optimize the road? :wink:


Wouldn't that involve (eg) digging them up to straighten the bends? :roll

Ian


Well that would give more time at destination to be a smart-alec online....

Hopefully.... :wink:
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Postby Garrison » Fri Aug 21, 2015 6:06 pm


Seriously topic slip here ...

I think my pace is different on each drive depending on how comfortable I am at processing all hazards.

Sometimes I can 1) feel under the weather, 2) only had 4 hours sleep per night for a working week, or 3) haven't driven for a few weeks, and my pace would be materially reduced such that I can process and deal with all the hazards.

I hope/try/seek training/aim to have total concentration on each drive but my 100% concentration does not always produce 100% ability each time so my reduced pace compensates for my lack of ability/talent :)
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Postby Astraist » Sat Aug 22, 2015 2:18 pm


StressedDave wrote:Again - point being missed. I'm talking about shoving the whole driving task down into the adaptive unconscious (It's actually better there than in the conscious bit of the brain).


Subconscious. To quote someone else in the buisness, "I'd rather not be in a car where the driver is in any way unconscious..." :wink:

"Systems" of all sorts are a coaching tool rather than a driving tool. You bring something into the conscious, rational level of competence, hone it and than assimilate it back to the subconcious competence.

Personally, to answer your question, I do not think about the system, but than again local driving coaching do not work along it's lines to begin with.
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