Advanced Driving Course vs Defensive Driving Course

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving.

Postby Happy Hopper » Tue Oct 06, 2015 12:42 pm


Hi

I am a little confused. I have been talking to a few people recently. Whilst some talk about a defensive driving course, other talk about an advanced driving course...

What's the difference? Are they the same?

To me you learned advanced driving techniques with an advanced course, although part of advanced driving is indeed defensive,as it is progressive, as it is eco-safe etc....

Is defensive driving an element of advanced driving - or is it totally different?

Thanks
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Postby Horse » Tue Oct 06, 2015 3:55 pm


IMHO most safety gains from post-test training will come from the improved identification and prediction of actual or potential danger.
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Postby Happy Hopper » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:20 pm


I had a chap who though defensive driving was "the wimps" version of advanced driving!! I don't fully agree but he maybe partly right...As for eco-driivng, surely that is getting very important now...
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Postby trashbat » Tue Oct 06, 2015 4:54 pm


It will depend on what it constitutes in practice, but I feel that on the Venn diagram, DD is entirely a subset of AD. This is only from a cursory understanding of what DD is, so I may be way off.

At least if you take away the boundaries of specific programmes like IAM, AD is the whole toolbox and palette containing everything pertaining to driving improvement, whilst DD seems to commonly be focused on reducing one's exposure to other people's risk, i.e. how to save yourself from someone else's error.

That to me misses out big chunks of AD, like performance and smoothness and the rest, but also doesn't seem to spend so much time on safety factors, most obviously, avoiding the risks that are derived from your own mistakes.
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Postby martine » Tue Oct 06, 2015 6:20 pm


Happy Hopper wrote:...As for eco-driivng, surely that is getting very important now...

Why? It's not important to me as I choose to prioritise other elements of driving.
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Postby Gareth » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:03 pm


Happy Hopper wrote:As for eco-driivng, surely that is getting very important now...

Surely it's importance to a person will mainly depend on disposable income. Since petrol and diesel prices are significantly lower than only a short time ago, I'm feeling much more free to worry less about fuel economy.
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Postby ROG » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:07 pm


Usually a defensive course is one day giving you advice and pointers to improve your normal driving but an advanced driving course is done over time so it improves your 'normal' driving into advanced driving

That is probably not the best way to put it but it is not far from the truth
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Postby Happy Hopper » Tue Oct 06, 2015 7:16 pm


martine wrote:
Happy Hopper wrote:...As for eco-driivng, surely that is getting very important now...

Why? It's not important to me as I choose to prioritise other elements of driving.



I do a fair few miles and have quite a limited income at the moment, so Eco driving is important to me
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Postby waremark » Wed Oct 07, 2015 12:46 am


Gareth wrote:
Happy Hopper wrote:As for eco-driivng, surely that is getting very important now...

Surely it's importance to a person will mainly depend on disposable income. Since petrol and diesel prices are significantly lower than only a short time ago, I'm feeling much more free to worry less about fuel economy.

I know 2 people who have BMW i3 ev's. Both are wealthy and also own gas guzzlers. Personally, I can enjoy trying to get the average mileage display up in a car which generally does less than 20 mpg.
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Postby Gareth » Wed Oct 07, 2015 6:31 am


waremark wrote:Personally, I can enjoy trying to get the average mileage display up in a car which generally does less than 20 mpg.

I've enjoyed trying to get the average mileage display up in my first car to have that facility, but now I know how, I take more enjoyment from driving in such a way that the average mileage display is lower than, say, low-mid 40s per gallon.
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Postby Astraist » Wed Oct 07, 2015 10:18 pm


In practice, some defensive driving coaching might be similar to some advanced driving coaching, and likewise some might vary.

I lately find myself using defensive driving more as to describing what I do in the sense that for those in my vicinity advanced driving does imply an element of driving on twisty roads (focus on limit points, balance, etc...) whereas "defensive" driving involves more managing space around the car, and interacting with traffic on all the other kinds of roads.

Generally, I refer to my driving style (and the range of styles adopted by those who spent their time listening to me) as being effective, efficient or smart.

Economic driving (which is also economic in terms of wear and tear, not just fuel!), as well as safe driving in traffic and in bends - are the byproducts of safe driving.

Even though, I still put the stress on safety. While you could argue that safety and economy go together, the fact of the matter is that if one is adopting safe driving habits for economical reasons, there is something wrong with one's attitude to safety.
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Postby WS » Thu Nov 12, 2015 10:46 pm


Happy Hopper wrote:defensive driving course, other talk about an advanced driving course...

What's the difference? Are they the same?


Hi

In my opinion the main difference between defensive driving and advanced driving is their objectives. While the goal of defensive driving is safety (minimising the risk of participating in an accident), the objectives of advanced driving may vary depending on application and driver. It may be safety too, but may also be:
- maximum progress while maintaining a relatively high level of safety (what is a high level of safety being subject to various interpretations),
- fun.

Other differences:
- defensive driving emphasises driving according to the rules of the road, while advanced driving may not place so much emphasis on this, especially as regards speed limits
- in terms of car control, defensive driving is focussed on emergency manoeuvres such as emergency braking, while advanced driving may also include various racing or limit handling techniques whose aim is to drive faster while retaining control of the vehicle
- advanced driving may also include techniques which are irrelevant to safety (such as heel and toe gear changes), or which might even decrease safety of an average driver in everyday driving (such as the mentioned various racing or limit handling techniques, which may cause drivers to overestimate their skills and take risks, which eventually leads to accidents).

Apart from the above, both defensive driving and advanced driving might be characterised as driving:
- based on effective observation and anticipation,
- characterised by the vehicle always moving at a speed appropriate to circumstances, both in relation to the road and in relation to other road users,
- ...and always being in a correct position, both in relation to the road and in relation to other road users,
- ...and always being in an appropriate gear for the circumstances,
- with appropriate signals given to other road users and appropriate points in time.

In my opinion the difference of the objectives between defensive driving and advanced driving mentioned at the beginning (safety vs. not-necessarily-safety) will usually manifest itself in how “appropriate speed” is defined.

As for ecodriving, which you mentioned: fuel economy or reduction of wear and tear are not a goal of either defensive or advanced driving. At the same time, both defensive driving and advanced driving usually result in a lower fuel consumption and lower wear and tear because both are based on good observation and anticipation. This happens to be the most important technique of ecodriving too.
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