Incident Advice

[fatface28]

Hi,

I have recently been involved in a car accident where the fault is under dispute. I approached a T juction indicating right. A car approached on the road to my right, indicating left and slowing down. I then pulled out of the junction and he drove straight into my drivers side door. He had indicated too early for a roundabout which was a few yards to my left.

Initially, i thought it was going to be black and white...i pulled out in front of him so its my fault but have been advised by a couple of major driving school instructors and my solicitor that because of his indication..i have a good case.

I just wondered how advanced drivers such as yourself thought about this rule and how you would have reacted in the same situation. What do you guys think, whos fault do you think this one should rest. (i think i know which way the law is going to say!!)

cheers

[Darren]

Actually, a long time ago (about 10 years) I was involved in a very similar incident.

From an insurance perspective, they'll try and go 50/50 I would think. Yes, he shouldn't have turned, but at the same time a bulb flashing means just that, it's flashing.

From his POV:
He was on a main road (you where on a minor)
You had to give way to him (not matter what he did???)

From your POV:
His indication was early and misleading (but I would only ever say, that it proves the bulb works!)
His position and speed said he was turning into the junction (I would always wait until they actually start the turn - there are some caveats on this).

If you had stayed stationary inside your junction, I would have said it was his fault. However, as you pulled out onto the main carriagway you could not have been sure what he was going to do.

Difficult one, can I sit on the fence? If I had to make a decision, the road was not clear (dispite the signal) and you crossed a give way. Insurance will still try and go 50/50 though as they won't spend the money on fighting it out. Especially if there were no injuries.

[fatface28]

Cheers Darren,

Thanks for your reply. I think i would be happy with 50/50 as i can see it from both parties perspective. I believe the other party involved are quite pleasant people and can hopefully see if from my perspective also, so fingers crossed for an amacable end!

cheers

[Gareth]

I approached a T juction indicating right. A car approached on the road to my right, indicating left and slowing down. I then pulled out of the junction and he drove straight into my drivers side door. He had indicated too early for a roundabout which was a few yards to my left.

I hope no-one was injured.

My understanding is that you were waiting at a side-road, planning to turn right onto the main road. The car on the main road coming from the right started indicating left, and you pulled out.

If I understand correctly, I concur with your initial assessment. I'm worried that any driving school instructor thinks otherwise. I'm not surprised about the solicitor, since by giving you this duff advice he stands to make some money.

If I am driving the vehicle waiting at the side-road, I avoid pulling out onto a main road until I'm certain that the car coming from the right really is turning into my side-road, also checking that there are no vehicles behind that may overtake to avoid slowing down.

If I do pull out, it is because the vehicle is going slow enough for me to clear it if it doesn't turn, and otherwise it is with the knowledge that I am taking a chance.

If I am in the position of the driver on the main road and I see a vehicle in the side-road, (or an oncoming waiting to turn into the side-road), I delay indicating until after the junction in case it misleads.

Given that there was a roundabout to the left, and if it wasn't a mini-roundabout, did you consider turning left to the roundabout?

[fatface28]

Hi gareth,

I agree with you, definetly. I only pulled out as he had been indicating for a while further down the road, and he had started to slow down. I believe that this was a commitment to the junction so i pulled out.

The roundabout wasnt immediately to my left and it isnt a busy road so turning left for the roundabout and then coming back down wasnt a consideration and im sure nobody else would consider that, in that location, either.

Anyway, what will be will be! As long as we all walked away without a scratch thats the main thing. Gutted about my beemer tho!

thanks for the feedback everyone.

[TripleS]

Hi,

I have recently been involved in a car accident where the fault is under dispute. I approached a T juction indicating right. A car approached on the road to my right, indicating left and slowing down. I then pulled out of the junction and he drove straight into my drivers side door. He had indicated too early for a roundabout which was a few yards to my left.

Initially, i thought it was going to be black and white...i pulled out in front of him so its my fault but have been advised by a couple of major driving school instructors and my solicitor that because of his indication..i have a good case.

I just wondered how advanced drivers such as yourself thought about this rule and how you would have reacted in the same situation. What do you guys think, whos fault do you think this one should rest. (i think i know which way the law is going to say!!)

cheers

Hello and welcome to ADUK.

Sorry to hear about your problem there, and I don't know the right answer - others may be better placed to advise you, and I'm sure they will. I think it is largely his fault, and you should certainly have some defence by virtue of the fact that he was indicating his intention to turn left as he approached you.

In that situation I would not have trusted the signal he gave, but what I may sometimes do is nip out quickly and make my right turn before he gets too close, so that even if he does go straight on there is no problem. One thing to be wary of though with this is the possibility of somebody behind him overtaking him as he slows to make his left turn, in which case I could be in conflict with the overtaker if I pull out to turn right - or left, for that matter!

Anyhow I hope all comes out OK for you.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Darren]

Sorry to hear about your problem there, and I don't know the right answer - others may be better placed to advise you, and I'm sure they will. I think it is largely his fault, and you should certainly have some defence by virtue of the fact that he was indicating his intention to turn left as he approached you.

No directed at you here Dave, I'm just wondering how many people would do the same thing, and as a result have the same type of accident. I would think this is actually quite common, due to simply seeing the indicator and not following the thought process through.

In that situation I would not have trusted the signal he gave, but what I may sometimes do is nip out quickly and make my right turn before he gets too close, so that even if he does go straight on there is no problem.

lol, someone very close to me did this, only didn't realise the car was a police car and recieved 3 points on her license for the privilige!

Darren

[7db]

Dose the other side have any independent witnesses? The answer, sadly, is usually no. And that does rather encourage insurance companies to go for a 50/50 or knock for knock settlement.

[vonhosen]

I'm going to be a bit of a dissenter here.

The give ways infere a legal priority to the traffic on the main road.
The signal of any vehicle on that road does not transfer that legal right to any other party.
He has right of way.

Of course respective responsibilities under criminal & civil law don't always go hand in hand.

It is true that the other parties indication can be considered a contributory factor in the collision. IMHO I would regard the whole episode as more like 75/25 in the other parties favour.

Always expect insurance companies to settle for a 50/50 where ever there is any dispute though, because it's the best deal for them (though not necessarily their clients).

[TripleS]

Sorry to hear about your problem there, and I don't know the right answer - others may be better placed to advise you, and I'm sure they will. I think it is largely his fault, and you should certainly have some defence by virtue of the fact that he was indicating his intention to turn left as he approached you.

No directed at you here Dave, I'm just wondering how many people would do the same thing, and as a result have the same type of accident. I would think this is actually quite common, due to simply seeing the indicator and not following the thought process through.

In that situation I would not have trusted the signal he gave, but what I may sometimes do is nip out quickly and make my right turn before he gets too close, so that even if he does go straight on there is no problem.

lol, someone very close to me did this, only didn't realise the car was a police car and received 3 points on her license for the privilige!

Darren

Oh dear, perhaps left it a bit late did she? What I meant was pull out quickly and turn right, getting it done in a brisk fashion comfortably before the other guy arrives.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[jibberjabber25]

If you pull out quickly without forcing anyone to change speed or direction then that is fine in my book. As soon as your pulling out causes someone to slow down or take avoiding action then that's a problem.

I assume the situation Von was refering to was the latter one.

[JamesAllport]

In the debrief from my first RoSPA test, the examiner said, of just such a situation, "Remember that the only thing that signal tells you for sure is that the bulb works."

That has stuck with me, and ever since I've looked for corroborative evidence that the car will take the turn I'm waiting in - mostly decisive loss of speed - but it's hard because most people brake very late for turns and negotiate them much quicker than I would.

Ho hum.

James

[James]

This is classic. As Roadcraft tells us, never rely on an indicator alone, wait for some other indication. I will tend to make a manouvre based on others course and speed. If the car is close enough that I can't guarantee pulling out in time should he maintain his course on the main road, I will stay put. If I can see him indicating in the distance and am happy that I can make it even if he continues his current course, then I will pull out.

I think what I am trying to say is that I pay about as much attention to indicators as I do to tabloids. They are just not to be trusted.

[fatface28]

thanks for all your feedback. I will let you know how the decision goes in the next few weeks.

cheers

[jibberjabber25]

Yes, I wholeheartedly agree with you there James