The Advanced Driving Appeal

[SammyTheSnake]

I think maybe it'd make sense to replace (or at least suplement) the *ahem* "controversial" adverts based on getting people to drive more slowly ("speed kills" and "hit me at 30 and I'll probably live, hit me at 40 and I'll probably die" etc.)

Instead (or at least as well) we should have adverts with a similarly potent message, bringing to mind the awfulness of accidents, but instead of "slow down" have a tagline something like "Be a Better Driver, Join the IAM" (or RoADaR or whatever)

Bringing up some of the statistics "N% less likely to kill somebody, like your girlfriend" or whatever might be a good tack, too.

Also, when I first took lessons, I asked my instructor what he thought of doing the advanced driving course/test he said it was for advancED drivers so I shouldn't do it for a couple of years. I'm beginning to think the right way might be to go straight from DSA to IAM/RoSPA. If my instructor's opinion is widespread, maybe it's something that needs challenging/changing?

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[Gareth]

when I first took lessons, I asked my instructor what he thought of doing the advanced driving course/test he said it was for advancED drivers so I shouldn't do it for a couple of years.

I suspect the reason for his opinion is that when most people learn to drive they are exposed to a limited set of driving hazards, (not least because most instructors teach pupils how to pass the test rather than how to drive), and generally this will be sorted out over a couple of years of experience.

Moreover basic car control takes a certain amount of time to sink in and become second nature, and many newly minted drivers are somewhat ropey in this department.

[jont]

when I first took lessons, I asked my instructor what he thought of doing the advanced driving course/test he said it was for advancED drivers so I shouldn't do it for a couple of years.

I suspect the reason for his opinion is that when most people learn to drive they are exposed to a limited set of driving hazards, (not least because most instructors teach pupils how to pass the test rather than how to drive), and generally this will be sorted out over a couple of years of experience.

Moreover basic car control takes a certain amount of time to sink in and become second nature, and many newly minted drivers are somewhat ropey in this department.

Isn't the fact the new drivers are less aware of hazards and may not know how to control the car in limit situations a good reason for doing further training immediately - thus getting them more aware of hazards and less likely to find themselves needing to control the car on the limit?

I agree experience may help, but why not make sure that experience is gained in the right direction under the guidance of IAM/RoSPA? Those who are in most need of help are perhaps those who don't live long enough to realise they're getting the wrong kind of experience.

[SammyTheSnake]

when I first took lessons, I asked my instructor what he thought of doing the advanced driving course/test he said it was for advancED drivers so I shouldn't do it for a couple of years.

I suspect the reason for his opinion is that when most people learn to drive they are exposed to a limited set of driving hazards, (not least because most instructors teach pupils how to pass the test rather than how to drive), and generally this will be sorted out over a couple of years of experience.

Moreover basic car control takes a certain amount of time to sink in and become second nature, and many newly minted drivers are somewhat ropey in this department.

Isn't the fact the new drivers are less aware of hazards and may not know how to control the car in limit situations a good reason for doing further training immediately - thus getting them more aware of hazards and less likely to find themselves needing to control the car on the limit?

I agree experience may help, but why not make sure that experience is gained in the right direction under the guidance of IAM/RoSPA? Those who are in most need of help are perhaps those who don't live long enough to realise they're getting the wrong kind of experience.

Speaking for myself, but I expect I'm a mild case based on my observation of others I know, I've picked up some bad habits in the last 3 years that I wouldn't have done if I'd gone straight onto an advanced course (or at least within 6 months or so)

To get a motorcycle license, you have to do a CBT before you're allowed to even drive with L plates, I'd rather see people thinking of the DSA test in those terms, just enough license to practice toward passing an advanced test...

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[TripleS]

On a more serious note...

I think people's idea of advanced driving is to be all stuffy like..and shuffle this and that..and mirrors mirrors then more shuffling..

I fear you're right about that. A lot of people will be put off by any sign of a stuffed shirt, goody goody, self righteous stance by the advanced drivers, and some of the experts do sound a bit like that I'm sorry to say. To be honest that puts me off, and I'm on your side!

I think many people believe it's taking a step back to learn advanced techniques..and may I say...is beneath them..

....and that again is a problem to be addressed by those who would do the teaching. It is important to start by finding some good things about the pupil's driving - even if that's a bit difficult - and being a bit complimentary and giving some encouragement. That should set a decent tone from the start, making things a bit easier for when you later come to focus on elements that may have to be criticised and altered.

I mean, they get from A - B every day...what more is there to learn ?

Aye, so long as we don't have too many shunts or upsets, what could be wrong? In any case whatever goes wrong will be somebody else's fault anyhow!

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Big Err]

Advanced drivers tend to be slower in most conditions. Where advanced drivers have the potential to go faster they are quite often restricted by the speed limits. On slow roads 'normal' drivers, in my opinion, tend to go too fast. Advanced driving is brilliant, but on the majority of public roads it ain't particlarly fast.

I have often found that when driving in 'convoy-ish' style with a driver who has had no further driver training, they tended to drive faster in the built up areas and (in my own opinion) do not make progress (within the posted speed limit) outwith built up areas.

Particularly so in these wonderful A and B class roads we enjoy traversing our lovely countryside .

Eric.

[jibberjabber25]

I think many people believe it's taking a step back to learn advanced techniques..and may I say...is beneath them..

....and that again is a problem to be addressed by those who would do the teaching. It is important to start by finding some good things about the pupil's driving - even if that's a bit difficult - and being a bit complimentary and giving some encouragement. That should set a decent tone from the start, making things a bit easier for when you later come to focus on elements that may have to be criticised and altered.

I have to say that the observers who do it this way are in the minority and in my view, shouldn't be on the team and make me mad! I'll do my utmost not to be one of those!

I have read the new Observer's Handbook for my group and it specifically states (in capitals): "REMEMBER THAT CRITICISM MUST BE CONSTRUCTIVE AND GIVE PRAISE WHERE DUE." Also: "Concentrate on the major problems first. Later on during the drive or the next observed run you should then concentrate on less major items."

It continues: "It takes time for group associates to react and absorb the information imparted to them so do not overload them as the System will appear too complex to learn and they will become disheartened."

Finally in many parts of the handbook it is repeated "give PRAISE".

So, there you go.

[TripleS]

I think many people believe it's taking a step back to learn advanced techniques..and may I say...is beneath them..

....and that again is a problem to be addressed by those who would do the teaching. It is important to start by finding some good things about the pupil's driving - even if that's a bit difficult - and being a bit complimentary and giving some encouragement. That should set a decent tone from the start, making things a bit easier for when you later come to focus on elements that may have to be criticised and altered.

I have to say that the observers who do it this way are in the minority and in my view, shouldn't be on the team and make me mad! I'll do my utmost not to be one of those!

I have read the new Observer's Handbook for my group and it specifically states (in capitals): "REMEMBER THAT CRITICISM MUST BE CONSTRUCTIVE AND GIVE PRAISE WHERE DUE." Also: "Concentrate on the major problems first. Later on during the drive or the next observed run you should then concentrate on less major items."

It continues: "It takes time for group associates to react and absorb the information imparted to them so do not overload them as the System will appear too complex to learn and they will become disheartened."

Finally in many parts of the handbook it is repeated "give PRAISE".

So, there you go.

JJ - I know we have had our little disagreements in the past and I expect we'll do it again, but I must say I'm full of admiration for what you're doing. No doubt things will be difficult from time to time, but I feel sure you'll make a great success of it.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[PeteG]

I know I'm glad I did my Rospa test as soon as I got my Corsa - it's given me so many little tips and tricks that would have taken years of experience to get otherwise. Mostly related to observation and planning, which is obviously lacking when you're striahgt out of the L-test.

[jibberjabber25]

JJ - I know we have had our little disagreements in the past and I expect we'll do it again, but I must say I'm full of admiration for what you're doing. No doubt things will be difficult from time to time, but I feel sure you'll make a great success of it.