The Advanced Driving Appeal

[kevdyas]

Why is advanced driving not appealing?

While laying in bed not being able to get to sleep I was thinking about a lady I am taking out in the morning for 'refresher training' (not through Advanced Driving) and wondered why she hasn't gone to an advanced driving group?

Is it that she feels the very word 'Advanced' driving gives the impression that the training offered "doesn't fit the bill" of what she is after? and that you can only be an 'advanced driver' if you are already a very accomplished driver?

The lady is looking to modernise her driving style and improve on her hazard perception and observation skills all of which are part of the syllabus for our local group.

So, is advanced driving being publicised in such a way that it outlaws the very people we may be looking to attract? - those people who want to improve their driving! and have an attitude to improve? Should be word 'advanced' not be used when advertising such a valuble service as not to give an impression of ruling out this category of driver? Could it be that drivers do want to improve but don't feel there is any place to turn?

Discuss!

Kev.

[SammyTheSnake]

The very word 'Advanced' driving gives the impression that ... you can only be an 'advanced driver' if you are already a very accomplished driver?

In a word, yes.

I personally prefer to think of "advancing driving" i.e. you can count yourself as an "advanced driver" if you are on a journey of constant progress in your ability. Advanced driving is more an attitude than a skill, and a term that reflects that would surely be a good idea...

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[Roadcraft]

While laying in bed not being able to get to sleep I was thinking about a lady

I do the same at times........then my wife says...."What are you thinking about?"... ..and I have to come up quickly with something about how nice the Gladiolas are this year..or something about the dog's next date for his vaccinations....

[James]

While laying in bed not being able to get to sleep I was thinking about a lady

I do the same at times........then my wife says...."What are you thinking about?"... ..and I have to come up quickly with something about how nice the Gladiolas are this year..or something about the dog's next date for his vaccinations....

Very good.

[Gareth]

Why is advanced driving not appealing?

I think for most people, learning to drive is not appealing.

The idea of being able to drive is fantastically appealing to most folks, I'm sure, but the reality is that the learning is hard work and requires extended periods of intense concentration. This aspect probably only appeals to those who enjoy taking academic exams.

After learning to drive and passing the DSA test, most people don't want to go any further.

I reckon there are four main groups that are interested in further learning:
* those that love driving and want to drive better for its own sake,
* those who are concerned about their own safety,
* those who have had one or more near misses,
* those who are timid drivers, (although they probably fall into the two previous categories).

For any of them to start advanced driving, there are some obstacles they need to overcome. The first is that it requires more hard work and more periods of intense concentration. I think most people realise this and it is probably enough to put them off.

A second obstacle is the general perception of advanced driving. The most common reaction I've come across is "does that mean you have to keep to the speed limits?" This should tell us something very important about driving in this country.

When members of the major advanced driving organisation say that advanced drivers make better progress, then I think everyone knows this isn't necessarily true, and that a confident but unsafe driver will make better progress, as will a confident safe driver who doesn't always keep to the speed limits.

With the current level of social engineering that promotes the bizarre idea that speed kills, maybe this aspect will be less of an issue in the future.

A third obstacle is that advanced driving is generally sneered at. It may be that advanced drivers are seen as conforming to an extensive set of rules, and that doing so is boring. In general, people who conform are seen as toadying, weak willed, or worse, whereas people who flout rules are lauded in popular culture and seen as more exciting, hence more attractive.

[TripleS]

While laying in bed not being able to get to sleep I was thinking about a lady

I do the same at times........then my wife says...."What are you thinking about?"... ..and I have to come up quickly with something about how nice the Gladiolas are this year..or something about the dog's next date for his vaccinations....

Hah, I've got another companion in the clowning department!!

Anyhow welcome back "R" - good holiday I trust?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[kevdyas]

The 'advanced driving appeal' was intended to look at the people who do want to improve not those that have no intention and whether the term 'advanced driving' is ruling out those people that we can help.

I also thought about why more groups don't run their courses but without the advanced driving 'test' - is the test putting people off? Surely, someone who reaches a standard without test is the same as a person seeking recognition for it?

Kev.

[Lynne]

I tend to agree with you Kev, I've always said I didn't like the term 'advanced' driving; it's not a good description and I agree most people have the wrong perception. To me true advanced drivers are those who've had training to be able to deal safely with conditions over and above us normal peeps. Eg response definitely class 1.

To the rest of us we're all dealing with what constraints are imposed within law and if we can't get out of the box (legally) then we are just using a different technique and style to deal with conditions that apply to everyone else on the roads.

I don't know what we can call it. The knowledge may be broader in scope which can allow for enhanced performance and safety but everyone's still stuck on public roads. Googling 'advanced' didn't help much to find an alternative either I'm afraid.

Lynne

[TripleS]

I tend to agree with you Kev, I've always said I didn't like the term 'advanced' driving; it's not a good description and I agree most people have the wrong perception. To me true advanced drivers are those who've had training to be able to deal safely with conditions over and above us normal peeps. Eg response definitely class 1.
Lynne

Oh good, I thought I was alone in seeing it that way.

I'll have another think about the question Kev, but it would certainly be nice to find a good answer.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[Gareth]

The 'advanced driving appeal' was intended to look at the people who do want to improve not those that have no intention and whether the term 'advanced driving' is ruling out those people that we can help.

The problem isn't the name, the problem is the image.

I'm sure many more would think about getting involved if it were seen as interesting rather than boring, exciting rather than safe.

Part of the problem is that when selling the idea of advanced driving, we're not really considering market segmentation.

How would it be if advanced driving was seen as being slick rather than staid?

Drivers need to be taught how to
* overtake without fuss,
* travel quickly through bends,
* negotiate roundabouts using superb timing,
and so on.

I'm sure this would have more appeal for a certain type of driver.

[martine]

Why doesn't advanced driving appeal? I think it's primarily about image.

Advanced road driving is synonymous in the UK with the grandly titled 'Institute of Advanced Driving' (and to a lessor extent ROSPA).

The image of the IAM is middle-aged and older, men driving Toyota/Honda/Rover making slow but safe progress. Much of this statement is true!

The IAM are well aware of it but not doing enough to counter it in my opinion - hence my support for ADUK.

[Roadcraft]

On a more serious note...

I think people's idea of advanced driving is to be all stuffy like..and shuffle this and that..and mirrors mirrors then more shuffling..

I think many people believe it's taking a step back to learn advanced techniques..and may I say...is beneath them..

I mean, they get from A - B every day...what more is there to learn ?

[Roadcraft]

Hah, I've got another companion in the clowning department!!

Anyhow welcome back "R" - good holiday I trust?

Best wishes all,
Dave.

I'm a mere amateur, perhaps even an 'office boy' in that department..allongside the likes of your good self, Dave.

Yeah, the holiday was very good. Nice and relaxing.

Refreshed I was.

[jont]

I think the problem is one of self selection. If you are interested in "advanced" driving, then you are probably already more aware of the dangers/risks and need for self improvement than the majority of motorists (although we are all striving to be better still). The very people who could benefit most are those who have the attitude that their driving is perfectly safe and there's nothing they could improve on (and they wouldn't want their self image challenged by accepting they could improve). IIRC Hugh Noblett said that he gave up doing fleet training because it was so unrewarding as so few people who attended wanted to learn anything or could see room for improvement in their own skills.

How would it be if advanced driving was seen as being slick rather than staid?

Drivers need to be taught how to
* overtake without fuss,
* travel quickly through bends,
* negotiate roundabouts using superb timing,
and so on.

I'm sure this would have more appeal for a certain type of driver.

I imagine that a lot of the drivers who perhaps do some of the above and could benefit from learning advanced techniques are also the sort who think speed limits should only be applied to other motorists. (I'm stereotyping I'll admit). And unfortunately I think compliance with the law may put people off (at least until speeding does become socially unacceptable).

We also get back to the debate about progress vs safety that we've already had on here. As speed limits continue to be reduced there's increasing less opportunities to make progress legally so the scope of advanced driving is reduced - in fact this seems to be the government aim to remove the need for advanced driving skills. (Yes, I know that actually there are lots of other reasons to be an advanced driver, but I'm not sure how you can sell this).

[Lady Godiva]

As a newbie IAM member, can I offer a few of my personal thought. I'll use Gareth if I may, but only to help emphasise my comments.

The problem isn't the name, the problem is the image. I'm sure many more would think about getting involved if it were seen as interesting rather than boring, exciting rather than safe.

When I initially decided to do the IAM, I did so thinking it was interesting and exciting. I'm not saying that there isn't an image problem, but it may not be as bad, or widespread, as we think. I sometimes wonder if we hide behind the issue of image; it's a convenient way of explaining lack of interest.

Drivers need to be taught how to
* overtake without fuss,
* travel quickly through bends,
* negotiate roundabouts using superb timing,
and so on.

We are. In the IAM, Rospa, and others, drivers are specifically taught (to varying levels I agree) all of the above. They are specific parts of the course, and the Observers and Associates spend a lot of time developing it, doing it and reading about it.

However (and for me this is the biggie) it is all done with Safety as the absolute top priority. The overiding rule is being able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear. This has a huge impact on how you drive, IF you are dring to Advanced standards. HUGE!

If you corner at the correct speed, you will almost definitely go slower than everyone else around that corner or bend. Plus you will definitely go slower than you physically can, if you only concern is grip. If you overtake bearing in mind the rules given in the Highway code and Roadcraft et al, you will almost certainly abort or refrain from overtaking opportunities that others will take (side junctions, crest, corners, etc). If you roll on and off the brakes at roundabouts, you will almost certainly be overtaken by those that rush up, brake hard hard, and snatch a late gear.

If you stick to the limits, you will make slower progress than those that break the limits. One of the problems here is that sticking to the limits is often a moral decision, and some drivers appear to have a real problem with this.

For me, driving to the System, using all the skills and techniques, will always be safer AND smoother than not doing so. But, it will always be slower than how many people currently drive. It also demands personal and moral responsibility, which is something sadly lacking nowadays (without getting on my soapbox).

I don't know how we get around that. Which is why I think that it isn't the image that is wrong. I think that people have the correct image. They just don't like the image, the message or the responsibility.

Regards
Sally the Soapbox