Country vs City

[oddlife]

Hi, I’ve been driving for ten years or so and I think I’m reasonably competent at driving on A and B roads. I look a long way ahead, use the right line through the corners (for the best view, not the racing line) use the tree line/telegraph poles to judge the direction of the road ahead, back off on blind bends, junctions etc, keep an eye on all 3 mirrors...
But when I drive in a city I’m like the classic country mouse in a big town, especially when it’s rush hour and I know where I want to go but the signs are crap and everyone else seems to have that ‘local knowledge’ that gets them in the right lane half a mile before I finally work it out, realise it’s to late and end up going the wrong way to avoid the inevitable barrage of horns that would accompany any attempt to correct my mistake. I’d appreciate any tips from advanced drivers on city driving and your opinions on if you think it requires a whole different skill set to ‘country driving’ or whether it’s just a case of practice makes perfect, or at least slightly better than crap...

[James]

It really is just experience. City driving is a nightmare at the best of times.

[Porker]

One tip that may b helpful is to make every manoevre you undertake very deliberate and give other road users plenty of warning of what you are about to do, whether it be change lane, stop or whatever.

While this applies equally in rural areas and motorways (etc), it's quite easy to forget in towns and cities because of the apparent rush of surrounding traffic and the additional mental pressure this causes.

And, as James says, practice helps enormously.

[SammyTheSnake]

I've been negotiating town / city traffic for about 20 years (the last 3 on a motorbike, pedaling before that!) and I think the key to surviving is (a) having balls of steel and (b) being able to read the "body" language of other road users. I put "body" in quotes, because it's often the vehicle you see, rather than the driver.

Regarding (a) I've been on junctions on my racer that I know many car drivers refuse to use, and it's only once involved being cut up badly, I've been cut up far more often on the less "scary" junctions

Of course, knowing the right lane to be in helps, as does leaving enough gap that you can see the road markings on the road. I'll never understand why some junctions are marked entirely by paint, which you just can't see when there are a million cars on it...

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[Big Err]

Take the train

Eric

[MiniClubmanEstate]

It's funny you should say that Chriskay, eye contact does create a problem. Although when I was taught to drive I was always told to make eye contact to make sure other road users have seen you but with a little experience which is mosty driving to work staying in town I make sure not to make eye contact.
If you make eye contact around here it can result in idiots cutting across your priority, this happened to me a few times although it seems classic cars are less respected and treated worse than others by some short sighted idiots who think that prioritys are set by what year your car is rather than by the rules of the road. I make sure that I know what somebody is doing emerging from a junction and I make sure that they have seen me using the corner of my eye but making sure that if they are staring at me I will not move my eyes over to make contact as I've already got the infromation I need and I want them to assume that I'm not ready to react if they pull out across my priority wich of course I am ready to react, they don't need to know that.

I don't mind driving around town but like anybody I prefer being out on rural roads.

[Lady Godiva]

Hi, I’ve been driving for ten years or so and I think I’m reasonably competent at driving on A and B roads. I look a long way ahead, use the right line through the corners (for the best view, not the racing line) use the tree line/telegraph poles to judge the direction of the road ahead, back off on blind bends, junctions etc, keep an eye on all 3 mirrors...
But when I drive in a city I’m like the classic country mouse in a big town, especially when it’s rush hour and I know where I want to go but the signs are crap and everyone else seems to have that ‘local knowledge’ that gets them in the right lane half a mile before I finally work it out, realise it’s to late and end up going the wrong way to avoid the inevitable barrage of horns that would accompany any attempt to correct my mistake. I’d appreciate any tips from advanced drivers on city driving and your opinions on if you think it requires a whole different skill set to ‘country driving’ or whether it’s just a case of practice makes perfect, or at least slightly better than crap...

Dear Oddlife - welcome.

I think it's a different skill set, but one that comes with experience. I personally don't mind town/city driving, as it lets me practice all the stuff that country roads don't (real tight RH and LH turns without BGOL, tyre and tarmac, space around the car, etc). State of mind will affect your drive more than anything else, so give yourself extra time if you can, and try and enjoy it.

One little suggestion if I may. Be VERY VERY careful about judging the road layout based on telegraph poles. It only takes one occasion for them to set off across the field, and so do you. John Miles is against it, and he knew what he was on about (see Expert Driving the Police Way, Chapter "Reading the Road", section Terrible Telegraph Poles). I can quote from it as follows:

"It will work perfectly ninety-nine times out of a hundred, but that hundredth time you could be in dead trouble. Sometimes telegraph poles take short cuts across fields while the road winds round a bend. At a place I know in Norfolk there is a slight rise followed by a really tricky bend. A driver can see the poles from the other side of the rise and they go straight on, and any driver taught to rely on this sort of indication may easily be tempted to go over the rise too fast."

Sorry for going on about it, but better to be safe than sorry.

Regards
Sally

[James]

Hence drive so as to able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.

[Lady Godiva]

Hence drive so as to able to stop in the distance you can see to be clear.

Dear James - Absolutely. But you would be surprised by the number of Advanced drivers that say that, then follow it up with advice to use telegraph poles to assist you in 'knowing' how the road looks.

I'll bet you there are many thinking "yep, I do that with telegraph poles", but we would all claim to drive such that we can stop in the distance we can see to be clear.

PYADT mentions the poles, then warns you that you can't really rely on them. Bit bizarre really.

Regards
Sally

P.S. when do you get the new car?

[Advanced Roadcraft]

PYADT mentions the poles, then warns you that you can't really rely on them. Bit bizarre really.

Sally: I think there's a (sorta) logic here.

I use this forward observation (a glance at the poles) sometimes as an extra advance warning of a possible deviation to the route I can currently see (a tightening-up of a bend or the brow of a hill, perhaps) and therefore a reason to hold back until the sight lines improve.

I wouldn't use the poles as input to a 'now I know where the road goes past the limit point I can put my foot down' decision!

best, B

[oddlife]

Thanks for the response everyone. On the telegraph poles point I’d agree that using them just as a warning to where the road might be going is best, not as a rigid guide.

As for city driving I find it makes a difference depending on what car you’re in. I’ve driven my Dads Fiat Punto around and whilst its reasonably nippy and easy to drive it lacks a little road presence and is often overlooked by other road users. I occasionally wonder if it is in fact covered with some rare experimental invisible paint...

The easiest thing I’ve driven around town is a friends bright red, battle damaged Escort van. Everyone seems to give you a little extra room. So maybe that’s the answer, just drive the biggest, most beaten up car you can find and watch everyone else dive for cover...

[MiniClubmanEstate]

If we all drive about in giant cars our congestion problems will get worse, there will be more fatalities, it will turn into a size war and driving standards are low enough without everybody feeling imortal as it is.

The best way around town if you're not carrying much luggage is on two wheels. With two wheels you spend more time moving, you don't need to stop as often in narrow streets, You can filter through ques of traffic and use less fuel, You don't always need fuel with the two wheel option.
Another option if you don't like driving in town is to take a bus. Most bus services offer a day ticket, monthly passes which save you money, the buses can continue past traffic in their Bus-Lane and you don't need to find a parking space.

If you do chose to drive though a giant expensive to run car is un-nessesary unless you particularly like that type of car and are happy paying the running costs. The best thing to do is learn defensive driving, how to componsate for the bad driving of others. Defensive driving is enjoyable, non stressful once you know what you're doing and you can even make the roads safer.

[oddlife]

I was only joking... I’m not suggesting we all drive around in big cars. I just making the point that different vehicles get different reactions from other road users, whether it’s a beaten up old van, a black cab or a rich looking woman in a convertible Porsche. Some vehicles make your life easier on the road and some don’t. Two wheels are great for town driving but they are also prone to that 'invisible paint' problem...

[MiniClubmanEstate]

Sorry.. If I'd been talking to you I'd have known
My mate once bought an old Astra van because it was cheep to run being a diesel. He prefered drivig that rather that a normal Asra as everybody stayed out of his way.
Interestingly I was recently on a weekend tour in My Mini and we had custom rally style magnetic plaques, on the single rack roads I was quite happy following most cars but just having the plaque seemed to give everybody a reason to tuck into a passing place and let me past, an interesting experince, quite nice actualy.

The two wheel option does put you at more risk but I simply will not be bullied of my push-bike, it's way faster in ques of traffic but it does have other downsides beside the invisibility. If you ride a push-bike everybody hates you, the looks you get from angry drivers as they are stuck in a que of traffic watching you pass and ending up on your verry own area the advanced cycle stop ahead of everybody else is great.

Of course, I'm usualy happy what ever I'm doing in my Car in the town, even sitting in a que of traffic with a two-wheeled something filtering past me.

[SammyTheSnake]

...with a two-wheeled something filtering past me.

That'd be me

I totally agree with the invisible paint, though, I sometimes feel I'd only be noticed if I actually ruined the cage driver's suspension on his way over my mangled corpse...

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny