Why I Avoid "organised" Runs

[Big Err]

That one happened at the Chapel Interchange (A92, Kirkcaldy West) heading north to Cluny

I thought it looked like the A915 in the vicinity of the Windygates roundabout. Green route confirmation sign on the nearside verge suggests an A Route.

We should arrange a site visit

[AlistairL]

That one happened at the Chapel Interchange (A92, Kirkcaldy West) heading north to Cluny

I thought it looked like the A915 in the vicinity of the Windygates roundabout. Green route confirmation sign on the nearside verge suggests an A Route.

We should arrange a site visit

Funny, I thought it was there too on the way out of Leven on the way to the Standin Stanes road.

I guess the green sign may be because all roads after that point are A roads - either down on to the A92, or across onto the A910. But the sign itself would appear to be on the B981.

Lol site visit - is that not tempting fate, we could have someone else bottling it in front of us

A.

[OILY PAWS]

That one happened at the Chapel Interchange (A92, Kirkcaldy West) heading north to Cluny

I thought it looked like the A915 in the vicinity of the Windygates roundabout. Green route confirmation sign on the nearside verge suggests an A Route.

We should arrange a site visit

Nope, definately B981, videoed from Begg Farm Road End

if you were leaving the Windygates r/bout you would be
A, directly in a built-up area
B, Heading up hill to either Methilhill or Leven (Banbeath)
C, heading along the A911 Milton By pass which is flat

and look at the size and spacing of the lamp standards, they denote a significant or large roundabout or interchange

[Horse]

Ahh,that makes sense. A load of bike guys in yellow jackets trying to stop traffic - umm no. Can't recall seeing "biker in yellow jacket" as having the right to stop traffic in the legislation......

Didn't you know?

Wear a yellow jacket and you're exempt from the regs.

Similarly, riding a bike on a Sunday afternoon exxempts you from speed limits and the laws of physics.

[jbsportstech]

That is pretty funny. He was lucky the old MR2 wasn't being driven by the average owner as he would of be flat out between sets fo light especially with that spoiler!!

Classic example of a under skilled rider going to fast see it at least once a week. Porbably bought the honda as he thinks hes is a skilled emergency service level rider.

I am not a motorcyclist but I have riden a few bikes and I tend to be more cautious and slower than I would be in a car but every sunday I see someone on a bike trying to brake the land speed record.

[MAG man]

I've organised a few large bike rides for charity with marshalls as well as being a marshall myself for other bike events. Sometimes small groups of 50 or so, sometimes large groups (up to 25,000 once in Paris) Situations vary according to the event; static marshalling works best for the largest groups, whereas marshalls riding with the punters works better on smaller events, getting the police involved works well but is not foolproof. It's very difficult, but the marshalls themselves have to take responsibility for their own actions. Observation, safety and forward planning are crucial, perhaps more so than when you are out on your own.

Don't let a bad situation in the past put you off joining in. These events are good fun and often done for a worthwhile cause. Offer your experience to the organisers, they'll bite your hand off.

[jbsportstech]

The interesting thing is for anyone who saw my cheddar Valley IAM Biker thread is a marine in taunton who died in afganistan was a avid biker and member and they have organised and 'unknown' number of riders according to their forum www.cvam.info/forum to ride in the funeral procession and the police have decided wisely to shut half the town to allow them safe passage.

Whether thats got anything to do with a member of the avon and somerset rpu who follows this forum and knows me I don't know. I do know he has spoken to someone in are rospa group following my comments on the CVAM Observer and he agreed wih my comments.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

To the uneducated eye, the main problem seems to be that they're all riding too close to each other, and to the centreline. It didn't look like speed was an issue really, apart from the "marshal" for some reason trying to squeeze past at the wrong time and land in too small a gap. A bit of herd mentality. They all seemed oblivious to the fact that there might be other traffic using the road to go about their normal business.

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

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[AlistairL]

<removed because the post it was in reply to disappeared>

Sorry about that. I posted in haste, watched the video again, and have to agree with you

[Mr Cholmondeley-Warner]

No worries. The ironic thing is that the guy riding outside the marshal managed to squeeze back in and probably thought no more about it.

[SammyTheSnake]

Anyone who wants to organise or be a marshal at an organised ride ought to be an exemplary or even exceptional rider. Do we know for sure that the chap on the pan was actually a marshal, not just wearing a dayglo jacket? (a lot of pan riders do, especially those on white pans - something of a wanabee policeman mentality)

The idea of having the marshals overtaking an entire (sizeable) column of motorcyclists is slightly crazy when there are so easily other ways of organising a ride*.

The chap on the pan was clearly in some difficulty some time before he actually collided, his right foot was off the peg and he looked like he was thinking of bailing at that point. I don't think he slowed significantly from the time he came into view until the colision. I would at least want to ask if the guy's brakes failed, to be honest. On the other hand, even if the brakes failed, he would have to be a pretty inexperienced rider (*especially* of a larger bike) to think that putting his foot down was going to gain him anything.

If I were anything to do with this event and had witnessed the incident, I would certainly consider banning this rider from any future rides and wouldn't even *dream* of letting him marshal again.

* the pattern I've seen described before, from memory, is something like the following:
ground rules:
1) no overtaking
2) no exceeding the speed limit at any time
3) minimum following gap of 1 second, alternating between left of and right of lane, or 2 seconds where alternating isn't possible
4) nobody other than marshals is to wear clothes that make them look like marshals - exactly what indicates a marshal can vary, but usually horribly geeky looking tabard has the advantage that nobody else is likely to already be wearing one

for directing at junctions
1) You only need two marshals, one at head and one at tail, more is gravy (though very useful at times)
2) at each junction, the marshal indicates to the first following rider where to stop, the rider stops to indicate to subsequent riders where the route is
3) once the rest of the riders has passed, the tail marshal will give him(/her) space to pull in and they resume

this way everybody gets to be in front, nobody has to overtake, and you can have just two marshals without having to go for quantity over quality!

Cheers & God bless
Sam "SammyTheSnake" Penny

[AlistairL]

The chap on the pan was clearly in some difficulty some time before he actually collided, his right foot was off the peg and he looked like he was thinking of bailing at that point. I don't think he slowed significantly from the time he came into view until the colision. I would at least want to ask if the guy's brakes failed, to be honest. On the other hand, even if the brakes failed, he would have to be a pretty inexperienced rider (*especially* of a larger bike) to think that putting his foot down was going to gain him anything.

Hi Sammy,

I don't think his brakes failed for a couple of reasons, the main one being that the drop is as a result of the rider using too much front brake and the tyre losing grip - if you watch the motorcycle carefully you will see the front forks shorten as the weight transfers and then the front wheel moves from the direction they were travelling in. I'm guessing, but the weight transfer looks too quick to be a throttle close and looks like front brake.

The only time I've crashed my own bike was at low speed when I was tired, turning left at a junction, and pulled on front brake and down I went - d'oh. Lesson learned - get braking done before turning, don't overlap and remember to countersteer.

Back to the video - the right foot goes out as part of a panic reaction, unfortunately meaning that on a standard motorcycle he has nothing to push on the rear brake with - which is what the right foot is normally used for on the peg.

Training and practice in controlled situations hopefully works on panic reactions, both in understanding dangerous situations and possibly avoiding them, but also the reactions that might create problems for a motorcycle or a high performance car. Have you heard of a book called Twist of the Wrist? Keith Code makes mention of Survival Reactions - the ones that get going with adrenalin!

Cheers

Alistair

[TripleS]

Ahh,that makes sense. A load of bike guys in yellow jackets trying to stop traffic - umm no. Can't recall seeing "biker in yellow jacket" as having the right to stop traffic in the legislation......

Didn't you know?

Wear a yellow jacket and you're exempt from the regs.

Similarly, riding a bike on a Sunday afternoon exxempts you from speed limits and the laws of physics.

....and driving a nice smart Pug 406 HDi exempts you from all laws and rules at all times.

Anyhow I'm booked to do trips to hospitals in Middlesbrough on Monday afternoon, and to Bridlington on Thursday morning, so I'll try to make those nice and legal - just to please my friend Von Smallhausen, not to mention my passengers.

Incidentally, it is surprising (but welcome) to find how many of my passengers - people in their 70s and 80s find all the present day legislative crap and regulatory regime a pain in the arse. It's not just the young tearaways.

Best wishes all,
Dave.