Why I Avoid "organised" Runs

[OILY PAWS]

Have a look at this short clip, it's only 30 odd seconds long, it was taken on Sunday 6th at a local egg run...... and feel free to append your comments

the riders in yellow jackets/tabards/surcoats are marshals for the event

I neither took the video, was involved in either the arranging of the run or took part in the run

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JirZPD507rw

[Horse]

One of the problems with a run like that - where, presumably, the marshals were 'leap frogging' the main convoy - is that they end up having to go twice as fast as the main group, while riders in the group aren't watching and allowing space for them.

Add in a a bit of panic - the foot down rather than braking (and on a tourer like that there's usually a fair bit available from the back brake) - and almost certainly target fixation too . . .

It seemed like the car stopped just in time.

[ipsg.glf]

In this day and age of Health and Safety, I am amazed that this type of loose organisation is permitted. What training will these marshalls have had in order to fulfill this role?

I was sitting behind a Traffic Car on a small roundabout the other week when 3 marshalls glided onto a roundabout and raised their hands to stop the traffic.

It would certainly have been interesting to know what the TrafPol's thoughts on the matter were.

[Horse]

In this day and age of Health and Safety, I am amazed that this type of loose organisation is permitted. What training will these marshalls have had in order to fulfill this role?

I was sitting behind a Traffic Car on a small roundabout the other week when 3 marshalls glided onto a roundabout and raised their hands to stop the traffic.

It would certainly have been interesting to know what the TrafPol's thoughts on the matter were.

Training? Bwa-ha-ha . . . or it would be if it wasn't so serious, as the vid demonstrates, the is plenty of potential for disaster.

I've been involved in various ways with a few toy runs - both as participant or marshal.

On some we had a police escort, they stopped the traffic at lights & junctions, we then took over until the convoy had passed, then leap-frogged back to the front.

That was fine for a few years until traffic were no longer willing to help. I wonder if it was as a measure imposed from 'on high' to try and stop the events happening? Whatever, the result was the convoy gradually getting separated. Not good, considering that bikes were attending from a wide area.

On another toy run, two of us marshalled*. Yup, illegal. But it kept the group 30-40 bikes together. I was complimented on my riding after that *smug*

There is marshal training available
http://www.britishcycling.org.uk/web/si ... ad_neg.asp


* After that we both decided to start a Marshals club as a resource that event organisers could use; formalise riding standards, machine control, basic first aid, that sort of stuff (we were also helping at an annual WWF cycle ride http://www.cooperbiketraining.org.uk/ne ... ry/wwf.jpg ).

We advertised it in the BMF magazine . . . not a single enquiry!

[Stephen]

Looking at the road lay out I would have said that if the marshall would have used a little bit more observation and planning ,as it looked as though the car was was there to be seen well in advance. I would say somewhere along the line Red mist along with panic set in causing chances to be taken which resulted in this situation developing and happening.
After all you cant expect the motorcyclists themselves to be constantly watching for the overtaking marshalls,as they had enough to contend with such as the closeness they were travelling to each other and the poor road and weather conditions.
I am sure there were lessons to be learned on that ride just like there always is on any organised event of that size,as nothing runs smoothly 100%.
Stephen

[TripleS]

Looking at the road lay out I would have said that if the marshall would have used a little bit more observation and planning ,as it looked as though the car was was there to be seen well in advance. I would say somewhere along the line Red mist along with panic set in causing chances to be taken which resulted in this situation developing and happening.
After all you cant expect the motorcyclists themselves to be constantly watching for the overtaking marshalls,as they had enough to contend with such as the closeness they were travelling to each other and the poor road and weather conditions.

Obviously they had no control over the road and weather conditions, but they should still be expected to ride accordingly.

I would have thought that they should have been aware of the likelihood of marshalls overtaking them, and their close spacing was surely something they had within their control; unless that type of event calls for closer spacing than would normally be considered prudent.

Best wishes all,
Dave.

[OILY PAWS]

Road layout, there is a straight of approx 800 yards then a series of blind summits, and gentle curves, then it enters a village, the car would have been in view from leaving the roundabout, unles the rider was looking at his front wheel.

Apparently there was another RTC on the run which involved another Marshal and a participant in the run, on approach to a roundabout the marshals bike took the other bike out injuring the pillion, and was written off in the process.

and the roads a 40......not NSL

[AlistairL]

Road layout, there is a straight of approx 800 yards then a series of blind summits, and gentle curves, then it enters a village, the car would have been in view from leaving the roundabout, unles the rider was looking at his front wheel.

Apparently there was another RTC on the run which involved another Marshal and a participant in the run, on approach to a roundabout the marshals bike took the other bike out injuring the pillion, and was written off in the process.

and the roads a 40......not NSL

I can see why you avoid them then. Looks like the marshall got in over their heads and panicked.

Did it happen near Leven or further up the coast?

[OILY PAWS]

Road layout, there is a straight of approx 800 yards then a series of blind summits, and gentle curves, then it enters a village, the car would have been in view from leaving the roundabout, unles the rider was looking at his front wheel.

Apparently there was another RTC on the run which involved another Marshal and a participant in the run, on approach to a roundabout the marshals bike took the other bike out injuring the pillion, and was written off in the process.

and the roads a 40......not NSL

I can see why you avoid them then. Looks like the marshall got in over their heads and panicked.

Did it happen near Leven or further up the coast?

Red mist, target fixation whatever.......or just excited, IMHO it's excitement LOOK AT ME syndrome.

That one happened at the Chapel Interchange (A92, Kirkcaldy West) heading north to Cluny

[AlistairL]

Red mist, target fixation whatever.......or just excited, IMHO it's excitement LOOK AT ME syndrome.

That one happened at the Chapel Interchange (A92, Kirkcaldy West) heading north to Cluny

I know the place, used it every day on my way home from college for a couple of years. So they came off the big roundabout into the single carriageway - good visibility once you come down the hill past the farm on the right. I was trying to figure out if it was somewhere between Methil, Wemyss, Dysart etc.

A shame though - I'm a sucker for the look at me syndrome too, with all the bikes, the cameras and feeling important being a marshall on a white pan - all added up.

At least Mr Honda arranged that the pan "gives you wings", and nobody else was taken down, unlike the other incident you mentioned.

[Horse]

with panic set in causing chances to be taken which resulted in this situation developing and happening

That's the daft bit: the rider was effectively out of control from about 00:32 when his foot is off the peg, a couple of seconds before the bike falls - so he must have been panicking well before then . . .

[OILY PAWS]

with panic set in causing chances to be taken which resulted in this situation developing and happening

That's the daft bit: the rider was effectively out of control from about 00:32 when his foot is off the peg, a couple of seconds before the bike falls - so he must have been panicking well before then . . .

the participant who was on the wrong side of the road got through......
the Pan should have been filtering right up the middle, just scrubbing speed off......


it's about time this forum was getting used.......

[Horse]

it's about time this forum was getting used.......

Yup

with panic set in causing chances to be taken which resulted in this situation developing and happening

That's the daft bit: the rider was effectively out of control from about 00:32 when his foot is off the peg, a couple of seconds before the bike falls - so he must have been panicking well before then . . .

the participant who was on the wrong side of the road got through......
the Pan should have been filtering right up the middle, just scrubbing speed off......

And that's the key, by planning ahead he could have just rolled off the throttle, matched in to a gap as the car passed, and continued on.

Classic 'speed' imperative that gets riders Combined with 'not having a place to land before taking off'.

[OILY PAWS]

it's about time this forum was getting used.......

Yup

with panic set in causing chances to be taken which resulted in this situation developing and happening

That's the daft bit: the rider was effectively out of control from about 00:32 when his foot is off the peg, a couple of seconds before the bike falls - so he must have been panicking well before then . . .

the participant who was on the wrong side of the road got through......
the Pan should have been filtering right up the middle, just scrubbing speed off......

And that's the key, by planning ahead he could have just rolled off the throttle, matched in to a gap as the car passed, and continued on.

Classic 'speed' imperative that gets riders Combined with 'not having a place to land before taking off'.

lol

this road, for want of a better expression isn't "fast" now in either direction and the car would have been in view for ages, the car must have been close to his (cars) nearside and creating room, the Pan riders forward obs must have been about six inches in front on his tyre.

[Big Err]

Ahh,that makes sense. A load of bike guys in yellow jackets trying to stop traffic - umm no. Can't recall seeing "biker in yellow jacket" as having the right to stop traffic in the legislation......