17yr old son wants a bike.

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving. IAM, RoSPA/RoADA, High Performance Course. All associated training. Motorcycle training.

Postby tdubya211 » Sun Jul 27, 2008 9:14 pm


I am more usually to be seen posting in the driving sections of this forum site. I wanted to ask a bit of general question to see if anyone can provide any re-assurance for my wife and I.

Our 17 yr old son has consistently expressed an interest in owning a motorbike over the last few months. He is saving his money to do a CBT course with a view to being able to buy himself a bike when he gets himself a job.

To be honest, my wife and I are worried parents. We perceive motorbikes to be very dangerous and vulnerable to accidents. I know this is due to ignorance on our part because we don't know anyone who rides a motorbike to talk to.

If anyone can understand what I'm asking, I would welcome any thoughts they may have that might help provide some re-assurance.

Fortunately in one sense he is quite road aware and has followed my advanced driving learning over the last 18 months with interest. If he persues motorbike riding, then I shall be encouraging him down this path as well.

Thanks

Dub
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Postby martine » Sun Jul 27, 2008 10:59 pm


Well first let me say where I'm coming from: I'm 50 but have had bikes since I was 18...I still have the bike I bought in 1979 (Z650 Kawasaki) but for the last few years it's languished in the garage...too busy to service it and give it a bit TLC but I will get back to it soon.

Bikes are more dangerous than cars that's for sure - but alot depends on the way they are ridden. The problem with some bikers (esp. young) is their assessment of risk (and the consequences) is all to pot. Some youngsters are more responsible than others and I'd imagine having you as a Dad (with your interest in advanced driving and influence) is a big help in making your son likely to have a better attitude than most.

The 2nd most important thing is not to rush up the power ladder too quickly...even modern 250s have phenominal performance and modern 600s are just like racing bikes of a few years ago but street legal. We all know here that speed in iteself isn't a killer but coupled with young excitement, enthusiasm and lack of skill means inappropriate speed is much more likely.

Bikes are great fun and you do get genuine camaraderie, sense of freedom and it's an absorbing hobby - much more so than the average run of the mill car.

I'd suggest you don't try and ban bikes for your son but 'manage' his interest and make sure he does it properly with decent training, decent and appropriate bikes and once he's passed his test more him on quickly to do advanced training (IAM or ROSPA).

You could also join him!
Martin - Bristol IAM: IMI National Observer and Group Secretary, DSA: ADI, Fleet, RoSPA (Dip)
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Postby hardboiled » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:51 am


Please make sure he wears some decent protective gear!! Loads of idiots in my village now all racing each other around in only t-shirt and jeans for protection - crazy stuff.

After 15 years of my mate riding bikes and constantly being questioned by his parents as to his wearing of the correct attire, he was called the other week by his mother & father who had just spent the day in hospital in a hot country after completely ignoring their own advice and riding with only flip-flops as a safety device :shock:
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Postby Red Herring » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:11 am


I guess I'd be quite nervous about any youngster trying to learn to ride bikes, and ride on the road, at the same time.

My son is now 13 and lives and breathes motorbikes. When he isn't racing them he's taking them to bits or riding around the garden with all his mates (very understanding neighbors ) and i have no doubt that when he is 16 he will want a moped, then at 17 a motorbike. As has already been mentioned a parents interest in advanced driving or riding can rub off on their children and my son does seem to take an active interest in such matters when pillion or in the car, so I am encouraged that when the dreaded day arrives and he does want to mix it with traffic he will have a head start.
I just think that learning to control a motorcycle is complicated enough without having to worry about giveway lines, traffic lights and the movement of other motorists. Likewise learning all these things is hard enough without trying to remember which is the clutch and which is the brake.
My advice is to try and get him interested in riding in an off road environment first, be it a motorcross school or something similar. If he sticks that out for a few months he will soon be very confident in handling a motorcycle and be far more prepared to take one on the road.
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Postby tdubya211 » Mon Jul 28, 2008 12:24 pm


Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. I don't know how far this is going to go, but your thoughts will guide us going forward, I'm sure of it.

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Postby christopherwk » Mon Jul 28, 2008 6:37 pm


Riding a motorbike is what made me join the IAM in the first place, and I joined as soon as I bought my first "big" bike - I rode a 125cc for a year to build-up no claims.

Besides the cost of insurance, especially at that age may discourage buying something powerful (£800 for TPFT on that 125cc when I was 19!). Also, until your son is 21, he'll be restricted to 33bhp - equivalent of say, 350cc, but that's still quite a lot of power.

Might it be an idea to have some driving lessons first? It may help with hazards, and gives an idea what a car driver can and can't see in their mirrors.

Protective gear is a must, earplugs too, I wouldn't ride in this weather at the moment, because it's far too hot, and it's very easy to get dehydrated, too.
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Postby Rick » Mon Jul 28, 2008 8:13 pm


Unfortunately bikes will always be more vunerable to accidents and bikers to injury. However with some proper training and the right attitude these risks can be minimised. Also in my area (and most likely nationally) figures would suggest that it is bikers in their 40's on sports bikes who are most at risk (that will be me then!) Ridden properly in the correct gear bikes are great fun, and also great for commuting ( I use my 500 to commute and ZX9R for playtime) I'd also suggest if he does do his test to do IAM/Rospa and also attend a bikesafe day which will give him an assessment of his skills. Although not training as such he will be given advice and tips. And it is around £35 or less in some areas. Check it out
http://www.bikesafe.co.uk/
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Postby hardboiled » Mon Jul 28, 2008 9:57 pm


christopherwk wrote:I wouldn't ride in this weather at the moment, because it's far too hot, and it's very easy to get dehydrated, too.


I've been waiting something like 10 months for decent weather like this to ride in 8)
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Postby Rick » Mon Jul 28, 2008 11:28 pm


hardboiled wrote:
christopherwk wrote:I wouldn't ride in this weather at the moment, because it's far too hot, and it's very easy to get dehydrated, too.


I've been waiting something like 10 months for decent weather like this to ride in 8)


And me!
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Postby hanse cronje » Mon Aug 04, 2008 7:56 pm


Good let him have one

He will be a better all round road user, and more appreciative of his surroundings on the road, he’ll probably come off, we’ve all done that but he will survive.

Training has significantly improved, I had star rider silver and was initially taught by my dad on a disused section of road next to the addingham by pass, things have significantly improved since mid eighties.

Helmets, clothing, protective gear everything is better, all he has to remember is that it takes 20 mins to get ready, and another 20 mins at the other end, and your hair looks crap, and there is never anywhere to store your gear when you get there and his partner wont appreciate the wet dog smell after a while
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Postby jbsportstech » Fri May 01, 2009 11:57 am


martine wrote:
Bikes are more dangerous than cars that's for sure - but alot depends on the way they are ridden. The problem with some bikers


Hit the nail on the head......

It will all hinge on his mindset and how he approaches his riding as to whether he is 'crash prone'. Generally speaking 16-24 are more likely to die on a bike country wide. However is somerset its actaully the 35-44 are more likely generally due to speed and risk taking.

The key issue for me with bikers is risk taking (Due to power and weight ratio being greater than the run of the mill car) and spacial awareness. When on a bike or push bike as much as possible I will keep the maxium safety gap possible. Sometimes other road users will not help and get far to close to you. BUT in alot of alot of cases I see bikers old and young who are far to keen to steam up into sitaution and give themselves little of no room and this makes them very crash prone. In a car this is not half as dangerous (In terms of threat to serious injury) as it is on a bike but some how this though process doesn't figure in some bikers minds as they feel they are to gooder riders not to be steaming around trying to make progress where is a 3-4ft gap.

If you can educate him that this is unsound and for bikers who are out for a thrill and wish to become 'organ doners' then he could well be one of the better riders out there that enjoy years of quality biking.

He needs to do his cbt and then his test, then possibly get some experience under his belt b4 attemtping advanced riding as it would in my mind be hard to learn until he has got some finesse and polish on a DSA ride. Unless a advanced biekr can correctly me on that?
Regards James


To the average driver 'safe' is not having accidents. To an advanced driver 'safe' is not being vulnerable to an accident.
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Postby wheelnut » Fri May 01, 2009 8:56 pm


hanse cronje wrote:Helmets, clothing, protective gear everything is better,


Although to nick someone elses phrase and misquote it slightly 'They are clothes silly, not a forcefield"
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Postby brianhaddon » Sat May 02, 2009 11:52 pm


wheelnut wrote:
hanse cronje wrote:Helmets, clothing, protective gear everything is better,


Although to nick someone elses phrase and misquote it slightly 'They are clothes silly, not a forcefield"


That being said they did their job when my son came off his bike.
Regards
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Postby wheelnut » Sun May 03, 2009 11:46 pm


brianhaddon wrote:
wheelnut wrote:
hanse cronje wrote:Helmets, clothing, protective gear everything is better,


Although to nick someone elses phrase and misquote it slightly 'They are clothes silly, not a forcefield"


That being said they did their job when my son came off his bike.


All depends on the sort of accident though doesn't it. Protective clothes will help prevent abrasion injuries, which admittedly can be quite nasty although generally not fatal.

Hit something relatively solid at 50mph and all the protective clothing in the world isn't going to help one bit.

Although to hear the way some people talk you'd think it was a suit of invincibility.
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Postby brianhaddon » Mon May 04, 2009 12:30 am


wheelnut wrote:Although to hear the way some people talk you'd think it was a suit of invincibility.


I understand your point and quite agree. Much the same with some features on cars.

My son rode into the back of a people carrier and left a sizeable dent. I am not sure of the speed involved but a helicopter was called. It was agreed by those around that his protective gear had helped him to a degree. I do not know by how much it had helped but I am glad he was wearing the gear.

Regards
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