Newbie - close to edge

[Jeffem]

Newbie to this forum so apologies if my question is an old chestnut.

Scenario:
Whilst ‘out and about’ the other day I came up behind a motorcyclist who seemed to be unsure about corners and continually surprised by the occasional straight bit of road. .I followed him along some twisty bits for a minute or two sizing up the situation whilst waiting for a suitable overtake opportunity. The road seemed to have been blessed with more than its fair share of white Dulux paint and it seemed ages for the right combination of clear view, clear road and no junctions. Suddenly the road straightens out of a bend and gets quite wide. I indicate and sweep past the motorcyclist giving him the maximum distance I can without crossing the Dulux. At no point, repeat, no point was my tyre closer than 6 inches to the white line during the whole manoeuvre. I was also within the speed limit.

Issue:
Whilst the tyre was inside the line, some of the bike (and me) crossed the ‘invisible vertical line’.

Question:
Should I be hung drawn and quartered or is this type of manoeuvre acceptable?


My opinion:

‘Straddle’ is what you do to the bike before you put your arse in the seat. ‘Next to’ is what you are just before you swing your leg over and ‘straddle’ the bike.

[ScoobyChris]

Question:
Should I be hung drawn and quartered or is this type of manoeuvre acceptable?

I guess the overriding question for me is "Was it safe?" and do you feel comfortable with the manoeuvre?

Chris

[Jeffem]

Hi Chris,

It was safe and I felt very comfortable.

The key issue for me is that I've been riding with a 'set of rules in my head' on how to ride within the boundaries of the Highway code for many years and the 'straddle' comment caught me completely by surprise.

Must we consider the invisible vertical wall scenario. What is the definitive rule? Coppers/IAM/ROSPA comments.

[7db]

The definitive rule is that if your head is going to smash into an oncoming vehicle then you should be further back.

The law as written is the that vehicle must be wholly to the nearside of the DWL system. Typically that means the offside tyre is (rugby) not touching the line.

But your head is more important than your tyre.

[redrobo]

Newbie to this forum so apologies if my question is an old chestnut.

Scenario:
Whilst ‘out and about’ the other day I came up behind a motorcyclist who seemed to be unsure about corners and continually surprised by the occasional straight bit of road. .I followed him along some twisty bits for a minute or two sizing up the situation whilst waiting for a suitable overtake opportunity. The road seemed to have been blessed with more than its fair share of white Dulux paint and it seemed ages for the right combination of clear view, clear road and no junctions. Suddenly the road straightens out of a bend and gets quite wide. I indicate and sweep past the motorcyclist giving him the maximum distance I can without crossing the Dulux. At no point, repeat, no point was my tyre closer than 6 inches to the white line during the whole manoeuvre. I was also within the speed limit.

Issue:
Whilst the tyre was inside the line, some of the bike (and me) crossed the ‘invisible vertical line’.

Question:
Should I be hung drawn and quartered or is this type of manoeuvre acceptable?


My opinion:

‘Straddle’ is what you do to the bike before you put your arse in the seat. ‘Next to’ is what you are just before you swing your leg over and ‘straddle’ the bike.

Yes, why not wait before scaring a new rider(supposing the other rider was a nubie), if there was a view then why were there still lines you could not cross?

[Porker]

Yes, why not wait before scaring a new rider(supposing the other rider was a nubie), if there was a view then why were there still lines you could not cross?

It's becoming pretty common to see solid white line systems where there is in fact a view, albeit one which perhaps requires better use of forward vision than many drivers will employ. I suspect that solid white line systems are also used in locations where head-on collisions have taken place, even though good forward vision is available.

Restrictions on overtaking are also used in the same manner on occasion.

P.

[Advanced Roadcraft]

Whilst ‘out and about’ the other day I came up behind a motorcyclist who seemed to be unsure about corners and continually surprised by the occasional straight bit of road. .I followed him along some twisty bits for a minute or two sizing up the situation whilst waiting for a suitable overtake opportunity. The road seemed to have been blessed with more than its fair share of white Dulux paint and it seemed ages for the right combination of clear view, clear road and no junctions. Suddenly the road straightens out of a bend and gets quite wide. I indicate and sweep past the motorcyclist giving him the maximum distance I can without crossing the Dulux. At no point, repeat, no point was my tyre closer than 6 inches to the white line during the whole manoeuvre. I was also within the speed limit.

Issue:
Whilst the tyre was inside the line, some of the bike (and me) crossed the ‘invisible vertical line’. Question: Should I be hung drawn and quartered or is this type of manoeuvre acceptable?

I'm struggling to see why you think that maybe you shouldn't cross a painted line to carry out a (safe) overtake?

What am I missing in this story?

Best, B

[Red Herring]

I think you will find the implication is that the white line is a solid one? Do you commit an offence if part of the bike overhangs the white line, eg: the handlebar, or does the tyre have to cross it?

[Advanced Roadcraft]

I think you will find the implication is that the white line is a solid one? Do you commit an offence if part of the bike overhangs the white line, eg: the handlebar, or does the tyre have to cross it?

OK...for the sake of argument I'll accept that interpretation of the OP's question. (Thanks...I couldn't see it at all!)

So, then: what "offence"? No specific offence is comitted by crossing a continuous, solid centre line at all - no matter whether you touch it, "straddle" it, lean over it or go right across the damn' thing with your body or bike or car.

Best, B

ps There are enough real offences without inventing imaginery new ones.

[Gareth]

Aren't we talking about a double white line system with either both or the nearest solid? I'm getting confused ... but the OP didn't really make it clear.

[Advanced Roadcraft]

I'm getting the feeling that even the OP has got bored with this.

And (I'm guessing here!) the rest of us know the answers no matter whether the line is single/double/solid/dotted...whatever.

So I'm going to withdraw from the confusion and make myself a nice cup of coffee!

Best, B

[rodericksdad]

I think you will find the implication is that the white line is a solid one? Do you commit an offence if part of the bike overhangs the white line, eg: the handlebar, or does the tyre have to cross it?

OK...for the sake of argument I'll accept that interpretation of the OP's question. (Thanks...I couldn't see it at all!)

So, then: what "offence"? No specific offence is comitted by crossing a continuous, solid centre line at all - no matter whether you touch it, "straddle" it, lean over it or go right across the damn' thing with your body or bike or car.

Best, B

ps There are enough real offences without inventing imaginery new ones.

Then forgive my ignorance but,reg. 26 of the traffic signs regs and general directions 2002 provides that where there is a system of continious (ie unbroken ) white lines then :
1) no vehicle shall stop on any length of road along which the marking has been placed; and

2) no vehicle shall cross a continious white line that is,when viewed from the direction of travel,on the left of a broken line or another continious line.

non complience with a double white line system is an offence and should/would/could be prosecuted under section 36 of the road traffic act 1988.

yes i know it goes on to give you some instances of when you can but this one certainly doesnt seem to be included in them

which then does make it an offence to cross or straddle it,or have i read the above postings wrongly?and assuming that it is a double white line system.

[Red Herring]

Before I conclude that Advanced Roadcraft is either winding us up or completely missing the point can I just check that I'm not being a bit dim myself. Has anybody else read this thread and not understood the original post to be that a motorcyclist is overtaking another motorcyclist within the confines of a solid white line system, and whilst doing so part of their machine may have overhung the white line, but the tyre did not touch or cross it, and the OP wants to know if this "overhanging" the line constitutes crossing or straddling it?

[ScoobyChris]

I agree Mr Herring My interpretation of "straddling" would be where the tyres themselves were on the white line, but I'd be interested to know other's opinions on it....

Chris

[Jeffem]

Hi All,

Red Herring has hit the nail on the head. The line in question was indeed a solid white line and my rambling question concerned whether or not my overhanging was considered crossing the line and hence an offence.

I would now like to add that this happened during my annual check ride with a Senior Observer so the implication is that I should know better. I’ve ridden for some considerable years with the opinion that ‘tyre inside the line’ was the rule and to be honest was taken aback by the comment.

My opinion is, as with many things, that the rules were written with four + wheeled vehicles in mind by a car-centric organisation. Why else would they include the phrase straddle.