Motorcycle roadcraft

Discussion on Advanced and Defensive Driving. IAM, RoSPA/RoADA, High Performance Course. All associated training. Motorcycle training.

Postby kwaka jack » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:25 pm


Hello everyone,

I'm probably being a numpty with this and completly missing the point, but I'm currently working my way through motorcycle roadcraft and there is a paragraph in the system of motorcycle control chapter that has baffled me slightly. It's about the 5 phases of the system which are Information, position, speed, gear and accerleration and the bit that has me confused is this.

"The system must be used flexibly in reposonse to actual road conditions, do not follow the sequence rigidly if it is inappropriate for the circumstances.

Surley all these points should be considered when approaching a hazard? and sure enough it says that in the first sentence of the next paragraph.

"The phases of the system cover all the points you need to consider on the approach to a hazard.

Am I missing something here? and what type of circumstances would you come accross that would not require you to access the hazard using the system of control?

Many thanks

Jack
User avatar
kwaka jack
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 7:57 pm

Postby jameslb101 » Mon Nov 05, 2012 9:44 pm


As per driving a car, one example would be if there is a vehicle following close behind, that would be forced to change their speed by your competitively early deceleration. In that case brake gear overlap may be permissible.

I'm sure others will come up with better examples.
User avatar
jameslb101
 
Posts: 639
Joined: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:02 pm

Postby exportmanuk » Mon Nov 05, 2012 11:08 pm


Maybe the situation changes so you go back to the beginning again.

If for example you are going round a bend and something previously not visible appears and creates an additional hazard you may have to reconsider your position speed and gear in respect of the new information. This is why in the diagrams Information surrounds everything .
exportmanuk
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:46 pm

Postby Slink_Pink » Tue Nov 06, 2012 10:00 am


As others have said it's about both situations where phases need to be overlapped (i.e. brake/gear) and/or where you need to re-enter the system as the hazard develops or new hazards appear. Mentally you might think of each stage but skip over it if no action is required.

e.g driving along a busy street
Position - central in lane
Speed - suitable for conditions
Gear - to match speed
Acceleration - gentle to maintain speed
Ball bounces out between parked cars
(Position - no change)
Speed - brake firmly, possibly to a bring vehicle to a stop
Gear - select following brake application
Acceleration - gentle or none, depending on above

I know it's a classic highway code example, but I've tried to show that following the ball bouncing out (new hazard) that you go straight to the SGA, steps rather than re-start at P (assuming I throughout).
Q: "Need I remind you, 007, that you have a license to kill, not to break the traffic laws."
Slink_Pink
 
Posts: 426
Joined: Thu Aug 03, 2006 5:01 pm
Location: Scotland

Postby Horse » Tue Nov 06, 2012 1:17 pm


kwaka jack wrote: Am I missing something here? and what type of circumstances would you come accross that would not require you to access the hazard using the system of control?


It's not so much 'not' using the system as . . .

kwaka jack wrote: "The system must be used flexibly in reposonse to actual road conditions, do not follow the sequence rigidly if it is inappropriate for the circumstances."

Surley all these points should be considered when approaching a hazard? and sure enough it says that in the first sentence of the next paragraph.

"The phases of the system cover all the points you need to consider on the approach to a hazard."


Consider and hazard are the two key words.

One hazard? Consider those you'll need to use, then implement

An unseen (or unforeseen) hazard mid-way through that consideration or implementation? Then you re-consider each and implement if needed.



What's the simplest consideration and application likely to be? Perhaps leaving a quiet motorway at a slip road? However, there's just one, slower, vehicle ahead in lane 1, signalling 'left' as you approach.

But as you get closer, it continues on past on the main carriageway, indicator still blinking merrily . . .

Here you've actually lost a hazard which had probably influenced your choice of speed and perhaps gear, you may even be starting to plan to pass the vehicle on the slip road.

But with that other driver now leaving the road free and clear for you, you can re-evaluate the situation and possibly even increase speed and cancel your signal.
Anything posted by 'Horse' may be (C) Malcolm Palmer. Please ask for permission before considering any copying or re-use outside of forum posting.
User avatar
Horse
 
Posts: 2811
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:40 pm
Location: Darkest Berkshoire

Postby kwaka jack » Wed Nov 14, 2012 9:43 pm


Horse wrote:
kwaka jack wrote: Am I missing something here? and what type of circumstances would you come accross that would not require you to access the hazard using the system of control?


It's not so much 'not' using the system as . . .

kwaka jack wrote: "The system must be used flexibly in reposonse to actual road conditions, do not follow the sequence rigidly if it is inappropriate for the circumstances."

Surley all these points should be considered when approaching a hazard? and sure enough it says that in the first sentence of the next paragraph.

"The phases of the system cover all the points you need to consider on the approach to a hazard."


Consider and hazard are the two key words.

One hazard? Consider those you'll need to use, then implement

An unseen (or unforeseen) hazard mid-way through that consideration or implementation? Then you re-consider each and implement if needed.



What's the simplest consideration and application likely to be? Perhaps leaving a quiet motorway at a slip road? However, there's just one, slower, vehicle ahead in lane 1, signalling 'left' as you approach.

But as you get closer, it continues on past on the main carriageway, indicator still blinking merrily . . .

Here you've actually lost a hazard which had probably influenced your choice of speed and perhaps gear, you may even be starting to plan to pass the vehicle on the slip road.

But with that other driver now leaving the road free and clear for you, you can re-evaluate the situation and possibly even increase speed and cancel your signal.



Righty o I understand it now cheers :D
User avatar
kwaka jack
 
Posts: 110
Joined: Mon May 07, 2012 7:57 pm

Postby Zebedee » Sun Jun 16, 2013 8:19 am


jameslb101 wrote:As per driving a car, one example would be if there is a vehicle following close behind, that would be forced to change their speed by your competitively early deceleration. In that case brake gear overlap may be permissible.


Except that, unlike car driving, riders normally overlap.

Motorcycle_Roadcraft wrote:During the later stages of braking change to the appropriate gear.
Zebedee
 
Posts: 145
Joined: Sun Oct 17, 2010 8:52 pm

Postby Horse » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:06 am


Zebedee wrote:
jameslb101 wrote:As per driving a car, one example would be if there is a vehicle following close behind, that would be forced to change their speed by your competitively early deceleration. In that case brake gear overlap may be permissible.


Except that, unlike car driving, riders normally overlap.

Motorcycle_Roadcraft wrote:During the later stages of braking change to the appropriate gear.


Normally?

I wouldn't; it would depend totally on the situation, if getting a shift on then gear selection would tend to be after firm braking and when a suitable speed has been achieved - but probably selecting the gear as I ease of the brakes.

However, the ergonomics of bike controls make bgol much easier.

NB you can't 'block change' on bikes, each gear has to be clicked through like flappy paddle car boxes.
Anything posted by 'Horse' may be (C) Malcolm Palmer. Please ask for permission before considering any copying or re-use outside of forum posting.
User avatar
Horse
 
Posts: 2811
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:40 pm
Location: Darkest Berkshoire

Postby exportmanuk » Sun Jun 16, 2013 9:07 pm


Horse wrote:
NB you can't 'block change' on bikes, each gear has to be clicked through like flappy paddle car boxes.


Strictly speaking it is not block changing as you say we are referring to changing sequentially without releasing the clutch, but




Block changing is much easier to say :wink:
exportmanuk
 
Posts: 223
Joined: Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:46 pm

Postby Horse » Mon Jun 17, 2013 5:10 am


8) :wink:
Anything posted by 'Horse' may be (C) Malcolm Palmer. Please ask for permission before considering any copying or re-use outside of forum posting.
User avatar
Horse
 
Posts: 2811
Joined: Mon Feb 05, 2007 2:40 pm
Location: Darkest Berkshoire

Postby Terry Williams » Mon Aug 19, 2013 7:07 pm


I see flexibility in the system as meaning phases can be changed, eg position and speed phases being reversed, from the normal system where rigid adherence would cause a problem. IIRC an example is given in the book by Erik Carlsson and Pat Moss published in the sixties whose title was I think something like the Art and Skill of Driving.
TJW
Terry Williams
 
Posts: 65
Joined: Tue Feb 27, 2007 7:43 pm
Location: Bedfordshire


Return to Advanced Motorcycling Forum

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests