ADUK Archive

Found this on Youtube and though someone here might be interested - it's a short documentary about the work of the Met Police Special Escort Group:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmZ7hhR ... e=youtu.be

Rob

Interesting - thanks for the link.

Great riding - must take huge amounts of concentration and anticipation for extended periods. Curious as to why they aren't fully marked up bikes though and why they don't use sirens for advanced warning.

martine wrote:Interesting - thanks for the link.

Great riding - must take huge amounts of concentration and anticipation for extended periods. Curious as to why they aren't fully marked up bikes though and why they don't use sirens for advanced warning.

Historically they've always used 'different' bikes. When the regular trafpols had airhead BMW RTs, SEG had plain bikes with leg shields.

When trafpols moved to oilhead RTs, SEG had hybrid RS-faired bikes. Then onto the Hondas, with VFR1200s when trafpols tend to use Pans.

The whistles are because they 'Don't want to make a fuss'. As a comparison, look for a US video of a presidential cavalcade

Horse wrote:Historically they've always used 'different' bikes. When the regular trafpols had airhead BMW RTs, SEG had plain bikes with leg shields.

When trafpols moved to oilhead RTs, SEG had hybrid RS-faired bikes. Then onto the Hondas, with VFR1200s when trafpols tend to use Pans.

The whistles are because they 'Don't want to make a fuss'. As a comparison, look for a US video of a presidential cavalcade

Yes but what's the harm in having a brightly coloured traditional traffic bike? More quickly recognisable esp if they're not using blues and twos. I would be concerned about pedestrians who may be poorly sighted or hard of hearing and normally if other road users hear a siren approaching they will be ready to cooperate.

They don't always get it right...

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2752691/Harry-crash-drama-Prince-s-shock-motorobike-outrider-smashes-head-taxi.html

Fortunately the rider wasn't seriously injured.

martine wrote: Yes but what's the harm in having a brightly coloured traditional traffic bike? More quickly recognisable esp if they're not using blues and twos.

They still use blues, IIRC.

But otherwise you'd need to ask them.

And I'm impressed by your faith that the public will respond correctly to conspicuity aids


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7098111.stm

"Sorry mate/mate/mate, didn't see you/you you"?

Horse wrote:And I'm impressed by your faith that the public will respond correctly to conspicuity aids

No not at all but they are even less likely to respond if the SEG bikes don't use sirens.

martine wrote:

Horse wrote:And I'm impressed by your faith that the public will respond correctly to conspicuity aids

No not at all but they are even less likely to respond if the SEG bikes don't use sirens.

By and large, the bikes will either be in convoy (ie longer distances), or playing leap frog putting on rolling closures, so spending half their time parked.

The process isn't so much 'encouraging' other road users to the side to allow the convoy past at speed, but more creating space (such as by stopping traffic emerging from side roads) to allow the convoy to continue at a steady pace.

The lead rider (aka 'Easy Rider) has the task of controlling the speed of the convoy vehicles, whether moving at pace or walking speed, based on how large the gap ahead is.

I guess with sirens there's scope for confusion. Most stuff with BnTs is on a shout, so going as quickly as possible to get somewhere. These folks aren't, they are creating a path for another vehicle (which isn't in much of a rush).

It's all very impressive, but I'm somewhat offended that anyone is actually deserving of this treatment. If traffic is so bad, they could take the train like they keep telling the rest of us to

I'm not sure I understand their obsession about not stopping - it's not as if a vehicle doing 1 or 2 mph would be that harder to "attack" than a stationary vehicle.

jont wrote:I'm not sure I understand their obsession about not stopping - it's not as if a vehicle doing 1 or 2 mph would be that harder to "attack" than a stationary vehicle.

I guess (and it is very much this) that any vehicle still moving MAY have more escape routes and can create a tad more space by merely stopping.

If you are stuck stationary in a line of traffic your movement options are nil.

Ian

mefoster wrote:If you watch the video, it's all explained at the start. They don't use sirens because they are often not heard against the background cacophony of, often, other sirens. Instead, they use whistles, which are far more effective at attracting attention. Their experience says that it works, so there is really no room to argue the point.

I'm not arguing just trying to understand. Yes I did watch the video form the start and I'm not suggesting they are wrong...but I still haven't had a explanation as to why not have fully-marked bikes with noisy sirens/high intensity flashy lights than rather plain, bikes and rather quaint whistles.

More discrete yes, less of an impact yes...is it just the emphasis in on convoy security rather than haste?

The SEG RTC in my earlier post may not have happened had they been making more noise.

Horse wrote:

martine wrote: Yes but what's the harm in having a brightly coloured traditional traffic bike? More quickly recognisable esp if they're not using blues and twos.

They still use blues, IIRC.

But otherwise you'd need to ask them.

And I'm impressed by your faith that the public will respond correctly to conspicuity aids


http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/bristol/7098111.stm

"Sorry mate/mate/mate, didn't see you/you you"?

Police spokesman said wrote:"The female driver sustained suspected whiplash injuries and was taken to hospital as a precaution. The police motorcyclist was uninjured...

She's in a car. The policeman was on a bike but uninjured and she has suspected whiplash..! Really..! Compensation culture gone mad...

I read about the whistles somewhere else recently - people have become so numbed to sirens in busy cities, that this is much more effective at getting attention, as mefoster points out. Until everyone does it, of course!

Edit: it was of course one of Reg's threads: http://www.pistonheads.com/gassing/topi ... 27+siren...

RUL wrote:There is another problem in the cities – what I term “siren apathy”. Sirens are so common in busy cities that people have started to either not notice them, or to actually ignore them. It’s the reason that the motorcyclists in the Met’s Special Escort Group don’t use sirens, but instead use very loud whistles.

Same as the ubiquitous invisible yellow jacket . . .

Sussex Uni, advising Sussex police wrote: It's a uniform, not a force field

Whistles are used instead of sirens, primarily not to disturb the principal who could be sleeping/chatting/reading, etc, and wouldn't want to arrive at their destination with an earache!

(I've yet to watch the video though)