Post test training consultation. The results are now out

[Advanced Roadcraft]

I can't do any of this without the IAM status, as thats what few qualifications I have are, DSA approved IAM senior observer, so I ask you again...how are the IAM rolling over by trying to allow people to help others ?

Sorry, Nigel, my earlier post may have appeared to be a flippant answer...not intended that way; merely pointing out that one can train people outside the warm embrace of the IAM.

I was not/am not saying that "the IAM (is)rolling over by trying to allow people to help others". I am saying that they are submitting (unnecessarily in my view) to supervision by the DSA which will (sooner rather than later) result in the over-regulation of the voluntary sector as it now stands.

Compulsory testing (and retesting) - at a fee no doubt - is on the cards. Result? Fewer Observers. Tighter rules and regs. on what an Observer may do/say/teach will demotivate them further. Ever wondered why there are so few 'volunteer' CBT and DAS instructors?

Best, B

[Nigel]

I think I see where your coming from, and indeed have been pulled up myself for giving tuition rather than guidance.

If its as you say, and I offer my services, free of charge, to help the aged or anyone else for that matter, don't I suddenly have insurance problems ?

[rlmr]

I am saying that they are submitting (unnecessarily in my view) to supervision by the DSA which will (sooner rather than later) result in the over-regulation of the voluntary sector as it now stands.

Sorry can't agree with that. To liken the situation to my sailing...

When one sees / feels a change in the wind it is often best to tack to take advantage of the changes rather to get caught out or disadvantaged.

I see the IAM's move as a preemptive strike so that they actually have some say in future matters... they have tacked early

Rennie

[Advanced Roadcraft]

I think I see where your coming from, and indeed have been pulled up myself for giving tuition rather than guidance.

If its as you say, and I offer my services, free of charge, to help the aged or anyone else for that matter, don't I suddenly have insurance problems ?

Nigel: apologies for delay in replying...been away for a long weekend.

Join the Driving Instructors Association (no need to be an ADI and they are happy to take Advanced Riding Instructors.)

£millions of Public Liability and Professional indemnity for a very reasonable annual sub.

Best, B

[NigelK2B12]

I have just sent off for the DfT's starter pack so I could either register as a PTMT or see how I go about qualifying. The costs involved are not inconsiderable. For instance the starter pack alone costs £6.99 which has a booklet of notes for guidance, much of its contents could have been posted on the DfT's web site particularly the additional costs, which in itself would have saved me the waste of £6.99. The pack also contained a whopping great official DSA theory test book, like I really need that at this stage! Dependent on your background the costs to become a PTMT are as follows:
Theory test: £58.75
Driving ability test (note it doesn't even mention 'riding' £92.83
Instructional/coaching ability test £92.83
Registration (4 year period) £235.00
or
Registration (12 months) £88.12

And then.......
Renewal/re registration £235.00
(presumably every 4 years)

I would not need to undertake the driving assessment so I would save that cost and maybe the instructional ability test dependent on my providing written evidence of prior accredited learning so the minimum cost for me will be £293.75 but is may be £386.58
So as its voluntary and as far as I can see the only benefits to me are that my name appears on an official DfT list I shall not be bothering.
Just another case of the government blagging money off us for little in return. i suppose the 'badge collectig' fraternity amongst us will like to have something else to add to their fairing but it wont be me thats for sure

[ROG]

Whats a PTMT?
What does it allow you to do if you have one?

[NigelK2B12]

PTMT stands for Post test Motorcycle Trainer/ing
It actually does not allow or permit anything that people already do either as Rospa/Iam observers or in my case as a qualified CBT/DAS instructor. All it does is get your name on a DfT's list of approved instructors.
There is absolutely nothing to prevent people continuing as before. I guess there may be some kind of benefit to people looking for training after they have taken their test, in that the register will be in existence to view. It certainly has nothing to do with 'Advanced training' whatever 'Advanced' may conjour up in peoples minds.

[Horse]

There is absolutely nothing to prevent people continuing as before. I guess there may be some kind of benefit to people looking for training after they have taken their test, in that the register will be in existence to view. It certainly has nothing to do with 'Advanced training' whatever 'Advanced' may conjour up in peoples minds.

At the moment it's voluntary, but sooner or later will become madatory for anyone conducting post-test rider training to be registered.

The 'T' word emphasised as the introduction of the register will have absolutely no impact on IAM and RoSPA volunteer 'observers' or 'tutors'.

What will the public gain from this? Increased costs, someone has to pay for it (not forgetting that the instructional assessments will either be time off work for 'hobbyists' (like me) or away from training for the full-timers.

They also, probably, 'gain' from a fair chunk of instructors not bothering to register, to eventually stop offering training.

The only ones that I can see the gain are DSA and their empire.

The RPMT (register of Post-test Motorcycle Trainers) has been introduced to stop 'rogue/cowboy' advanced instructors - but are there many, or any?

Also, as Nigel says, the 'standards' required by DSA are incredibly vague (actually non-existant); they've said they don't want to create another 'advanced' test. For admission they'll let in on application everything from DAS instructors to RoSPA 'Gold' riders - who aren't qualified as instructors!

Anyone claiming 'grandfather rights' via, for example, a BTEC instructional award, doesn't have to maintain that qualification once on the register.

Extreme cost, lots of confusion, minimal benefit to the public.

[Horse]

Quick 'Heads Up!' for anyone interested.

Access via 'Grandfather Rights' closes at the end of this month.

Re: IAM observers, as discussed earlier in the thread:

http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/instruc ... rs_FAQ.pdf

What qualifications do I need to join via prior accreditation (Grandfather rights)?

Each application will be considered on its merits on a case by case basis.

However, the consultation paper also lists some qualifications, which, if completed in the three years up to and including the application to the register will be acceptable for DSA to allow you to join the register if validated by a Theory Test. These are:
o BTEC/NVQ motorcycle instructor course;
o City & Guilds motorcycle tutor;
o DAS Assessed Instructor;
o DIAmond Advanced Motorcyclist Examiners Qualification;
o DIAmond Motorcycle Instructor course;
o DSA motorcycle examiner staff instructor course; o Police Instructor course; o RoSPA Diploma (motorcycles);
o RoSPA Gold Standard.

You may be intrigues to note that a RoSPA Gold rider is 'on', but a Police Advanced rider isn't listed

Even the consultation only listed:

7. The following training schemes have been identified as possible candidates for accreditation by DSA:-
• RoSPA diploma
• BTEC/NVQ instructor course
• City & Guilds tutor
• Police instructor
• DSA motorcycle staff instructor course

http://www.dsa.gov.uk/Documents/consult ... uctors.pdf

[rlmr]

Quick 'Heads Up!' for anyone interested.

Access via 'Grandfather Rights' closes at the end of this month.

So are you bothering to register? I'm not .

Rennie

[Horse]

Quick 'Heads Up!' for anyone interested.

Access via 'Grandfather Rights' closes at the end of this month.

So are you bothering to register? I'm not .

Rennie

Probably . . . but I'm going to take my time and think about it Don't want to encourage them

What I will probably do is register for the 'one year' option . . . then depending on how the first year goes . . . take a year 'off' and re-register before that year ends

[rlmr]

Probably . . . but I'm going to take my time and think about it Don't want to encourage them

Please do not let anything I say put you off. I take it you give Advanced Motorcycle Instruction as a profession?
I just can't see what is in this for anyone who does not make their living from Advanced Motorcycle Instruction as its a lot of money to pay out of one's own pocket and only the professional instructor would have some means of recouping the outlay... but adding the cost to the tuition fees

Wish you the very best.

Rennie

[Horse]

Please do not let anything I say put you off. I take it you give Advanced Motorcycle Instruction as a profession?
I just can't see what is in this for anyone who does not make their living from Advanced Motorcycle Instruction as its a lot of money to pay out of one's own pocket and only the professional instructor would have some means of recouping the outlay... but adding the cost to the tuition fees

Wish you the very best.

Rennie

It's a 'hobby'. although I take a professional attitude towards it.

I'm getting - always ssuming I'm accepted! - in now because I don't want the cost and inconvenience that will be increased from the current levels if I wait beyond 'Grandfather Rights'.

That said . . .

I don't agree with it
I don't think DSA really know what they're doing with RPMT apart from increasing their influence and empire
I don't think there will be a noticeable benefit for trainees
There WILL be a cost overhead which will have to be passed on to trainees

I've not done much training in the last 18 months (family woes, and planned wrist operations), but have booked some in over the next couple of months just to boost the kitty to fund entry to the register. After that, prices will rise (although I'm 'bargain basement' compared with some!) . . .

[rlmr]

It's a 'hobby'. although I take a professional attitude towards it.

Good on you. like your attitude.

I'm 'bargain basement' compared with some!

Some folk do seem to charge an astonishing rate, but do not undersell yourself. Whether its been with sailing, driving, biking or whatever, folk seem to think they get better tuition if they pay lots of money for it.

My going rate is "keep my bike fuelled and pay for the coffee at the stops"
When I was working full time the rate was even cheaper... but me a coffee at the stops, but that was when I had a full salary to cover the bike's running costs.

Having said that the training offer is only made to folk I class as friends and I have to be sure they are not likely to end up an IAM candidate in my area.

Rennie

[Horse]

It's a 'hobby'. although I take a professional attitude towards it.

Good on you. like your attitude.

Thanks - but as I see it, it's the only way.

I'm 'bargain basement' compared with some!

Some folk do seem to charge an astonishing rate, but do not undersell yourself. Whether its been with sailing, driving, biking or whatever, folk seem to think they get better tuition if they pay lots of money for it.

A few years back, we doubled our 'day' course fee overnight. No-one ever quibbled.

Having said that the training offer is only made to folk I class as friends and I have to be sure they are not likely to end up an IAM candidate in my area.

Ah . . . teaching them bad habits, eh?