marcw06 wrote:The link below caught my eye in the news - an odd defence to speeding - and does it really matter who was driving? Surely the fine is a civil matter between the owner and who ever the owner allowed to drive his car?
7db wrote:marcw06 wrote:The link below caught my eye in the news - an odd defence to speeding - and does it really matter who was driving? Surely the fine is a civil matter between the owner and who ever the owner allowed to drive his car?
It does matter as it is a criminal offence against the driver not (as with parking) a civil penalty against the keeper. If you don't know who was driving, then there can't be a successful prosecution.
The registered keeper is required (S172) to make reasonable efforts to identify the driver and disclose that to the CC on request. This then forms the prosecution's evidence about who was driving.
The case highlighted is about whether in requiring the RK to name himself when he is driving the law has breached his right not to incriminate himself. I can't see it winning, but it would drive a coach and horses through speedcamera fines if it were passed.
7db wrote:marcw06 wrote:The link below caught my eye in the news - an odd defence to speeding - and does it really matter who was driving? Surely the fine is a civil matter between the owner and who ever the owner allowed to drive his car?
It does matter as it is a criminal offence against the driver not (as with parking) a civil penalty against the keeper. If you don't know who was driving, then there can't be a successful prosecution.
The registered keeper is required (S172) to make reasonable efforts to identify the driver and disclose that to the CC on request. This then forms the prosecution's evidence about who was driving.
The case highlighted is about whether in requiring the RK to name himself when he is driving the law has breached his right not to incriminate himself. I can't see it winning, but it would drive a coach and horses through speedcamera fines if it were passed.
7db wrote:marcw06 wrote:The link below caught my eye in the news - an odd defence to speeding - and does it really matter who was driving? Surely the fine is a civil matter between the owner and who ever the owner allowed to drive his car?
It does matter as it is a criminal offence against the driver not (as with parking) a civil penalty against the keeper. If you don't know who was driving, then there can't be a successful prosecution.
The registered keeper is required (S172) to make reasonable efforts to identify the driver and disclose that to the CC on request. This then forms the prosecution's evidence about who was driving.
The case highlighted is about whether in requiring the RK to name himself when he is driving the law has breached his right not to incriminate himself. I can't see it winning, but it would drive a coach and horses through speedcamera fines if it were passed.
marcw06 wrote:...clearly having ones rights violated isn't OK but neither is the act of speeding ...
rlmr wrote:...From what I can remember, the Law requires the registered keeper to reveal who was driving their vehicle at a time / date / location. It does not require the registered keeper to admit to exceeding the speed limit at that time... just to driving. The matter of the Speeding Contravention is dealt with AFTER the driver has been established.
hpcdriver wrote:If the British parliament wants to be able to force RK's to report who was driving then it should be able to do so. It is absurd to have surrendered our national sovereignty on such issues.
vonhosen wrote:I'd imagine in the wake of the coach & horses would be councils having the ability to give you PCNs (no points though) & then you'd get FPN/court hearings/points where stopped by Police.
marcw06 wrote:Besides, if he genuinely feels so strongly about the protection of human rights then why do we not see him involved in the many other real human and privacy rights violations that take place in this country? ... but I think we all really know the answer to that one ...
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