No just trying to explain why ROSPA isn't betterMr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:...you still want to keep saying the IAM is better.
Yes I think it is actually - but partly because of sheer size.Better organised,
Not interested - as long as it's financially stable enough to survive.more profitable maybe.
Never said that.Better at producing high quality drivers, moot.
Absolutely agree and in the past we've worked together with Avon ROSPA (sadly now defunct ) and we continue to have a few joint events with local ROSPA members....there's no reason for us not to try and sing from the same hymn sheet.
I just looked at the Master's Standard, and it appears a worthy document, although, as you implied, it doesn't actually define much of a standard in anything. Perhaps that's why such widely differing results are being achieved, by people we know to be all of a very high standard to start with?
RobC wrote:Rospa Gold has historically been called the highest grade of civilian driving because of its requirement for retest to retain the grade.
Garrison wrote:RobC wrote:Rospa Gold has historically been called the highest grade of civilian driving because of its requirement for retest to retain the grade.
Just out of curiosity, is the HPC a higher or lower grade than the ROPSA Gold? I have never done ROSPA so I don't know.
Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:"We've got the Masters that's better than your Gold" - well maybe, but again, only in the last couple of years
Garrison wrote:Just out of curiosity, is the HPC a higher or lower grade than the ROPSA Gold?
martine wrote:RobC wrote: I'm not knocking ROSPA - it's a fine organisation and of course we are on the same-side - but I believe the old view of ROSPA being somehow 'better' than the IAM is outdated.
I too would like to see ordinary IAM members be subject to retesting but you can understand IAM HQ's reticence in implementing it:
- with 91,000 members the current examiner base right across the UK would be woefully inadequate*
- losing a significant chunk of membership (through test failure) would be financial suicide!
Gareth wrote:Mr Cholmondeley-Warner wrote:"We've got the Masters that's better than your Gold" - well maybe, but again, only in the last couple of years
Before Masters there was the less formalised Special Assessment.
Martine wrote:Come over to the dark side Nick ... I know you really want to
Indeed - I believe there are < 400 'Masters' in the UK - but all I'm saying is the option is there if people want a higher-level test and compulsory retesting.RobC wrote:I'm sure IAM masters is an excellent qualification and subject to retest, but only a minority of IAM members have it.
After an initial clear out of poor IAM members, then yes in there is no reason why the IAM numbers wouldn't stabilise. I think of the current 91,000 membership, a significant number would either decline to take any retest, or take it, fail and lose interest.Im not an expert on Rospa but the retest is a bronze, silver and gold grading not a pass or fail, and your owm IAM group currently has a 92% pass rate for the entry IAM test so if Rospa aren't loosing members due to retest then why should the IAM.
You sound like you're unaware the IAM has a grading for the entry advanced test now and has done for several years: fail, pass or F1rst grade - less than 10% nationally get the higher level.Rospas grading system gives an incentive to keep members driving skills current or improve their grade of driving and any possible loss of membership would be offset by a gain in professionalism.
Yes I've come across similar . In the Bristol group we run our own 'Advanced Driver Refresher' course for existing group members. There is also the option for any IAM member to take a reassessment with an examiner - but it's rarely taken up .I know an 'advanced' driver who passed the IAM van test in the 1970's and has considered himself an advanced driver for all those years despite having collisions and speeding convictions!
Of course - the same is true in ROSPA I guess.Also whilst IAM observers are now subject to retesting, the standard of the test nationally is more dependent on individual examiner...
No idea but I do know the DVSA sit-in IAM examiners on test on a regular (not monthly) basis to maintain the IAM's DVSA accreditation. They don't, as yet, sit-in with Observers - I suppose the IMI accreditation may be keeping that at bay....which is why DVSA examiners are check tested every month. How often are IAM examiners check tested?
chriskay wrote:That's exactly what he told me, saying that RoSPA Gold was was a good basis from which to start HPC.
martine wrote:After an initial clear out of poor IAM members, then yes in there is no reason why the IAM numbers wouldn't stabilise. I think of the current 91,000 membership, a significant number would either decline to take any retest, or take it, fail and lose interest.Im not an expert on Rospa but the retest is a bronze, silver and gold grading not a pass or fail, and your owm IAM group currently has a 92% pass rate for the entry IAM test so if Rospa aren't loosing members due to retest then why should the IAM.You sound like you're unaware the IAM has a grading for the entry advanced test now and has done for several years: fail, pass or F1rst grade - less than 10% nationally get the higher level.Rospas grading system gives an incentive to keep members driving skills current or improve their grade of driving and any possible loss of membership would be offset by a gain in professionalism.
RobC wrote:...If a significant number of IAM membership would either decline to take any retest, or take it, fail and lose interest then surely they don't deserve to retain their advanced status.
True - that may be the case but the initial clearout could be fatal for the IAM.I'm sure that many IAM members pay the skill for life fee, do the qualification and then leave as they have achieved what they wanted and perhaps do not find the meetings etc to their liking. If the IAM retested then surely more members would continue to subscribe if they wanted to keep their advanced status and to improve or retain their grade.
mefoster wrote:Make retesting compulsory. If people decline and leave then that's fine. If people are retested and fail then that's fine too. Why would any AD organisation want people who are not up to standard as members?
And commit financial suicide? Seriously, if the IAM say lost 1/3 of it's membership I doubt if it would survive - why would you do that?It'll never happen though. Too much money to be lost.
RobC wrote:If a significant number of IAM membership would either decline to take any retest, or take it, fail and lose interest then surely they don't deserve to retain their advanced status.
RobC wrote:I'm sure that many IAM members pay the skill for life fee, do the qualification and then leave as they have achieved what they wanted and perhaps do not find the meetings etc to their liking. If the IAM retested then surely more members would continue to subscribe if they wanted to keep their advanced status and to improve or retain their grade.
Return to Advanced Driving Forum
Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 56 guests