daz6215 wrote:slowly boil a frog and he'll just sit and not notice whats happening, drop him in to boiling water and he'll jump right back out.
vonhosen wrote:
And how many people can drive other people's cars quite legally on insurance that isn't regsistered to that car ?
If your intention is to track an individual's movements from a car, you need to know exactly who is driving it.
vonhosen wrote:Of course tracking of individuals is possible if you want to imbed chips in everybody from birth, or as you say enforced carrying of trackable ID cards, but that's not what is being suggested.MGF wrote:It isn't necessary to track the movements of an individual to invade their privacy.
I didn't say it was.
I just said that you aren't tracking individuals (as is suggested) with what is proposed.
vonhosen wrote:They can monitor your traveling out of the country, they can't monitor 'your' traveling in the country, because they don't know it's you traveling.
Porker wrote:Oh, that's OK then. All my concerns are neutered in a trice.
michael769 wrote:And given that our government has shown that it is quite happy to sell the information they collect (the electoral registers, DVLA and HMRC all sell lists of names and addresses already), I doubt it would be long before we started getting letters inviting all regular shoppers at the toytown branch of Tescos to try the new Asda.
MGF wrote:How is this information sold for marketing purposes without your consent?
MGF wrote:It seems to me reasonable that if you use your vehicle in such a way as to cause financial loss to another then that individual or organisation should be entitled to pursue you to recover their loss.
MGF wrote:
How is this information sold for marketing purposes without your consent? When I register on the electoral role I have a choice of opting out or in to this.
jont wrote:MGF wrote:It seems to me reasonable that if you use your vehicle in such a way as to cause financial loss to another then that individual or organisation should be entitled to pursue you to recover their loss.
But what is the burden on that organisation to prove they have suffered financial loss before the DVLA gives up details? You might have overstayed an arbitrary time limit in a car park, but if the car park isn't full, it's hard to argue you are causing customers to go elsewhere.
michael769 wrote:MGF wrote:
How is this information sold for marketing purposes without your consent? When I register on the electoral role I have a choice of opting out or in to this.
I did not say it was without my consent.
michael769 wrote:But for that matter how is not ticking a box which uses obscure terminology like "do not include me in the abbreviated register" constitute giving consent? In my area someone comes round to the doorstep and fills out the paper work for me. In order to get the box ticked I had to specifically ask them which meant I needed to know it existed. I don't call not getting that box ticked "giving my consent"
michael769 wrote:And neither HMRC or DVLA have ever even offered an opt out let alone asked for consent. And I'm not talking about the DVLA giving out the keepers address to folks with a "reasonable reason" to need it. I am talking about the generic lists of names and addresses that they sell to advertisers.
fungus wrote:This may well be taking it to the extreme, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that this sort of technology could be used to track the movement of the individual. It would only require the mandatory carrying of identity cards fitted with a chip holding the individuals personal details. If it could be tracked by satelite, and I dare say that it's possible, the government could track the movement of every individual in the country.
Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer
vonhosen wrote:fungus wrote:This may well be taking it to the extreme, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that this sort of technology could be used to track the movement of the individual. It would only require the mandatory carrying of identity cards fitted with a chip holding the individuals personal details. If it could be tracked by satelite, and I dare say that it's possible, the government could track the movement of every individual in the country.
Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer
Of course tracking of individuals is possible if you want to imbed chips in everybody from birth, or as you say enforced carrying of trackable ID cards, but that's not what is being suggested.
daz6215 wrote:slowly boil a frog and he'll just sit and not notice whats happening, drop him in to boiling water and he'll jump right back out.
jont wrote:MGF wrote:It seems to me reasonable that if you use your vehicle in such a way as to cause financial loss to another then that individual or organisation should be entitled to pursue you to recover their loss.
But what is the burden on that organisation to prove they have suffered financial loss before the DVLA gives up details? You might have overstayed an arbitrary time limit in a car park, but if the car park isn't full, it's hard to argue you are causing customers to go elsewhere.
TripleS wrote:fungus wrote:This may well be taking it to the extreme, but it is not beyond the realms of possibility that this sort of technology could be used to track the movement of the individual. It would only require the mandatory carrying of identity cards fitted with a chip holding the individuals personal details. If it could be tracked by satelite, and I dare say that it's possible, the government could track the movement of every individual in the country.
Nigel ADI
IAM trainee observer
....and no doubt when that facility becomes available to the government, they'll use it.
....except on me of course, because i will not be having an ID card, so where will that leave me?
No ID card, therefore:
my driving licence might be withdrawn from me?
I may not be able to use the services of the NHS?
i may not be able to use the public libraries?
my pension may not continue to be paid?
I may not even be able to walk to my local shop and buy food items, because they may not serve me without seeing my ID card?
Is this really the world I'm expected to live in in my years of retirement?
No, NO, a thousand times, NO. I, at least, am not going along with this!
....and whatever follows from that will simply have to follow.
The way this government is shaping up worries me far more than any risks I may face from criminal behaviour or terrorism, and that's a fact.
To most of us, suffering from acts of criminal behaviour is a tiny risk, and suffering from acts of terrorism almost zero risk. The damage to our quality of life - the feel of life - from the government will be permanent. It isn't worth it.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
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