GJD wrote:Porker wrote:...non-human-influenced changes which are undoubtedly occurring.
That fact is often noticeable by its absence. I'm sure its understood by those doing the science, but I don't have much of an idea from the mainstream discussion about what the climate should be, and I think that's rather important. It's one thing to try and stop having an effect we might be actively having at the moment, quite another to try and manage the climate beyond that.
Gavin
Porker wrote:With respect to my wealth destruction assertion:
(Wikipedia quote)
Porker wrote:My contention therefore is that doing things that are less productive than other things that you could do with the same money destroys wealth. In the climate change example, every pound we spend on wind-generation, for example, is a pound we can't spend on food, healthcare, defence, improved manufacturing technology, research and so on.
Porker wrote:Moreover, much of that technology will come from abroad, further worsening our balance of payments.
Additionally, the less we spend on remaining competitive in the world, the less competitive we become, which has a real and very pronounced effect on wealth.
I could go on, but I hope that makes the point.
regards
P.
MGF wrote:So what you are really complaining about is not the destruction of wealth per se but your lack of faith in British enterprise, innovation, entrepreneurship and technological know-how. You believe there will be a shift of wealth from one part of the workd to another. Quite simply we can't compete and so we should - pathetically in my view- cling on to our rapidly declining status in the world by resisting change.
It seems to me that there is an overall destruction of wealth when goods are destroyed for reasons other than they've come to the end of their working life. Older cars is the obvious example here, and one that appears to make little sense from a 'green' point of view.
Within the context of the British economy, and therefore the well-being of British people, it seems to be a certain kind of destructiveness to make decisions that will result in large amounts of money being spent on goods of foreign manufacture, especially if those decisions are made for ideological reasons without their being a corresponding pragmatic benefit. I don't know if this is the case for the proposed massive expansion of wind turbines, but I'm not convinced it's good for the country. Related to that I also despair that Britain isn't in the position to build it's own nuclear reactors for power generation, and wonder what decisions over the years have lead to us being in this unenviable position.
I expect most of it comes down to the idea that service industries, and financial services in particular, are all that's required for a country to survive as an economic power in the current age. It seems we are all too easily held hostage by others that supply the goods and raw materials we need.
fungus wrote:Gareth wrote:It seems to me that there is an overall destruction of wealth when goods are destroyed for reasons other than they've come to the end of their working life. Older cars is the obvious example here, and one that appears to make little sense from a 'green' point of view.
The car scrappage scheme has nothing to do with the environment and everything to do with bolstering the sales of new cars that had fallen due to the recesion which was largely brought about by the finance industry.
martine wrote:For a start the global temperature you are referring to is a sqwiggly line showing large variation up and down year to year. [...] It seems perverse as a lay-man not to listen and give most credence to the majority of experts.
TripleS wrote: I'm inclined to play it safe(ish) by tootling around quietly and economically in a nice 406 and thus saving the planet, rather than teararsing about at great expense in, er, for example, a noisy and thirsty Focus ST.
x-Sonia-x wrote:TripleS wrote: I'm inclined to play it safe(ish) by tootling around quietly and economically in a nice 406 and thus saving the planet, rather than teararsing about at great expense in, er, for example, a noisy and thirsty Focus ST.
well for me....I wouldnt mind teararsing about in an ST
jont wrote:More fuel for the fire:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... false-ipcc
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